Ten Second Free Throw Violation ...

BillyMac

JRutledge wrote
... call stuff that is not either the standard or acceptable by most experienced officials ...that really most of us never care about.

True, but every once great while something bizarre, really out of the ordinary happens that even very experienced officials have never ever dealt with before, forcing one to immediately "care".

Raymond

BillyMac wrote
True, but every once great while something bizarre, really out of the ordinary happens that even very experienced officials have never ever dealt with before, forcing one to immediately "care".

And forcing us to read a whole bunch of posts from you because you won't let the conversation die a natural death. We obviously don't think or care about this situation as much as you do. Can't you respect that?

JRutledge

BillyMac wrote
True, but every once great while something bizarre, really out of the ordinary happens that even very experienced officials have never ever dealt with before, forcing one to immediately "care".

I officiate a lot of basketball at many levels, funny this is not something people are that concerned with hardly at all. Even newer officials do not do something they have not usually seen or been told to do. This is about you (as usual).

Peace

BillyMac

Raymond wrote
We obviously don't think or care about this situation as much as you do. Can't you respect that?

Then why three replies about the "punch" (replies that I mostly agree with)?

JRutledge wrote
... this is not something people are that concerned with hardly at all.

Of course not, because it will probably never happen.

Nevadaref wrote
There is nothing unsporting about counting out loud while guarding an opponent. It’s the same as hollering, “Ball, ball, ball” or “Dead, dead, dead.”

BillyMac wrote
Ball handler A1 picks up her dribble and is unable to immediately find a teammate to pass to. Defender B1 gets inches away from A1 and yells "Dead. Dead. Dead" (repeating it over and over) directly into A1's face in an extremely loud, irritating, annoying, and obnoxious manner, attempting to get under A1's skin, and trying to panic A1. A1 punches B1. Who gets tossed? Just A1, or both A1 and B1? I'm not saying that I know the right answer, or that I believe that both should be tossed, but it's certainly worth thinking about.Just sayin'.

It was a hypothetical situation (with the punch) from the get go, intended to spark continued discussion about possible unsporting behavior, a change-up from the original discussion about possible unsporting "counting", perhaps even back tracking a little to whether "Dead. Dead. Dead ..." should always be considered "not unsporting".

And even though it was a hypothetical situation, I could (under extreme conditions) see this happen in a game that's already been chippy, that already has officials' antennae up.

BillyMac

BillyMac wrote
True, but every once great while something bizarre, really out of the ordinary happens that even very experienced officials have never ever dealt with before, forcing one to immediately "care".

This past season I had a once in a career whistle on a foul by a defender on a start the third period division line throwin before I handed the ball to the inbounder. Defender had his back to me and thought that the inbounder had the ball. His foul was not your typical intentional foul, just over aggressive deny defense.

Took me a few seconds as I walked to the reporting area to figure it out, and to then explain my technical foul (calling it intentional dead ball contact) call to the coach. Not my finest hour. Should have talked to my partner, who later (too late) told me that I should of just called an inadvertent whistle and told the kid to cut it out.

JRutledge wrote
Just tell the players or teams to knock it off in some of those cases and move on.

Raymond

BillyMac wrote
Then why three replies about the "punch" (replies that I mostly agree with)?

...

You're right. I need to go back to my policy of not looking at a thread if you are the last person to post.

BillyMac

BillyMac wrote
Just sayin'.

Just Sayin’: A phrase used to assert "I hold the stated belief, but I don't have an imperative to act on that belief." Similarly, it may indicate a desire to hold and express the belief, but not to want to argue for or defend that belief. This could be because the belief is phenomenologically obvious, because the belief may be based in faith, or because the argument may be too complex or boring to have. Depending on the context, "Just sayin'" may indicate that the speaker sees the belief as possibly wrong or as so obvious its legitimacy can't be questioned.

BillyMac

BillyMac wrote
I'm just acting as the Devil's advocate.

Devil's advocate: A person who champions the less accepted cause for the sake of argument. Someone who pretends, in an argument or discussion, to be against an idea or plan that a lot of people support, in order to make people discuss and consider it in more detail.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The Rule is 10 seconds in NFHS, NCAA Men's/Women's, and NBA/WNBA, and 5 second in FIBA. That said in the 46 years I officiated (NFHS, NCAA Men's/Women's, and FIBA) I had only one situation where the Rule came into play (an AAU Girls', which play using NCAA Women's, qualifier to the National): When my count reached 12 seconds and she was still bouncing the Ball, I put air in my whistle. No more problems after that.

MTD, Sr.

BillyMac

Update:

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/refs-facing-pressure-count-giannis-ft-line-78498855

Nevadaref

BillyMac wrote
Update:

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/refs-facing-pressure-count-giannis-ft-line-78498855

One more thing for whining HS parents to fuss about. I won’t be calling this.

BillyMac

Nevadaref wrote
One more thing for whining HS parents to fuss about.

Good point. Up until this recent Giannis Antetokounmpo controversy, most fans were probably unaware of the ten second free throw rule. As a player, and a coach, I was unaware of the rule and didn't know about it until I became a basketball official.

Now they're aware, and will become even more aware if the Milwaukee Bucks make it to the finals.

BillyMac wrote
So let's move on to our NFHS high school games ... site directors may, or may not (i.e., (many allow) jeering during opponents free throws), want to control fans counting down, leaving little control by officials regarding such fan behavior.

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