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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 11, 2021, 08:13am
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Bizarre ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
It was just called in the Brooklyn at Milwaukee NBA playoff game with 7:29 left in the 2nd quarter.
It was Giannis Antetokounmpo's free throw routine that started this thread.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba...ets/ar-AAKVByc

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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Jun 11, 2021 at 08:19am.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 11, 2021, 12:31pm
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Inquiring Minds Want To Know ...

The NBA told the Brooklyn Nets to stop displaying a timer on the scoreboard when Antetokounmpo was attempting free throws because the NBA decided that it didn't want teams inciting their fans to taunt opposing players. While I don't know much about the NBA, I'm sure that while the NBA can stop the scoreboard display, it probably can do little to stop fans from "counting down" on their own.

So let's move on to our NFHS high school games. Our state associations would probably frown upon such scoreboard displays, and site directors may, or may not (i.e, jeering during opponents free throws), want to control fans counting down, leaving little control by officials regarding such fan behavior.

So what can officials, the "Guardians of the game", control?

Players and bench personnel, including coaches. They are certainly under our control, but how much control?

What is the responsibility of a high school officials, under NFHS rules, controlling such counting down behavior from players and bench personnel, including coaches?

And not just ten second free throws, but also ten second backcourts, five second throwins, five second closely guarded, and three second lane counts.

Is counting down behavior from players and bench personnel, including coaches, any business of the officials?

Does any rule language (unsporting not limited to, attempting to influence an official’s decision, inciting undesirable crowd reactions, baiting, taunting; distract the free thrower) allow officials to intercede in such "counting down" situations with players and bench personnel, including coaches, even if it just a, "Cut that out", or is even that overreach and none of our damn business?
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Jun 11, 2021 at 01:40pm.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 11, 2021, 01:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
...

Does any rule language (unsporting not limited to, attempting to influence an official’s decision, inciting undesirable crowd reactions, baiting, taunting; distract the free thrower) allow officials to intercede in such "counting down" situations with players and bench personnel, including coaches, even if it just a, "Cut that out", or is even that overreach and none of our damn business?
Coaches and bench personnel counting out loud for anything other than the game/shot clock winding down or preventing their own team from getting a violation is attempting to influence an official and is not acceptable in my games. I have T'd a coach for his 3-second count; it was during a team camp.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 11, 2021, 01:38pm
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Thanks For Stepping Up ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Coaches and bench personnel counting out loud for anything other than the game/shot clock winding down or preventing their own team from getting a violation is attempting to influence an official and is not acceptable in my games. I have T'd a coach for his 3-second count; it was during a team camp.
Agree. Nice to see we have at least two "Guardians of the game" Forum members (I'm sure that we have more). I thought for sure that I would get a "Mind our own damn business", "Not our job", or "Overly officious officiating" reply (and still may).
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Jun 12, 2021 at 01:11pm.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 11, 2021, 03:23pm
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If a coach tells me to "Mind your own business" after I tell him to have his team stop counting for violations on the other team, he's getting a technical foul. First, he's attempting to influence an official's decision, and 2nd, he's addressing an official in a disrespectful manner.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 11, 2021, 09:31pm
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I had a partner call this over 15 years ago. I just remember the routine was very unusual and the shooter even walked away from the line. Then he went back to the line and took a long time. It was probably 15 seconds and it is the only time in my career I have seen it called in person. I still joke with the official that he called this, but all in fun.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 12, 2021, 12:59pm
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All In Fun ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
If I did ever call it, I can 100% guarantee that my referee buddies would give me hard time at the local watering hole after the game. Probably get stuck buying a few beers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I still joke with the official that he called this, but all in fun.
Thirty-five years ago, when the girls first switched to a smaller basketball, a good friend of mine tossed a girls ball to start a boys high school varsity game that wasn't discovered for several minutes. Our local guys, and a few guys from other Connecticut boards (word spread quickly across the state), never let him forgot about it. It was discussed at his wake. Here in Connecticut we're what'cha call experts when it comes to "chain yanking", and "ball busting".

Note: I recently told this story to a young rookie official who responded, "You mean the girls haven't always used a smaller ball?". Ouch. Thanks for reminding me that I'm old.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Jun 12, 2021 at 05:31pm.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 12, 2021, 01:07pm
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Senator, You're No Jack Kennedy (Senator Lloyd Bentsen, 1988) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... the routine was very unusual and the shooter even walked away from the line.
Every once in a great while I'll have a player who wants the ball while he's a step outside the semicircle. As the lead, I'll tell him to get inside the circle because he's "not Larry Bird".

With apologies to Senator Lloyd Bentsen: "Young man, I officiated Larry Bird's games. I knew Larry Bird. Larry Bird was a friend of mine. Young man, you're no Larry Bird".
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jun 14, 2021 at 12:32pm.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 12, 2021, 03:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
The NBA told the Brooklyn Nets to stop displaying a timer on the scoreboard when Antetokounmpo was attempting free throws because the NBA decided that it didn't want teams inciting their fans to taunt opposing players.
Like Bill Veeck's Pitchometer!
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 12, 2021, 05:45pm
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Genius, I Tell You, Genius ...

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Like Bill Veeck's Pitchometer!
... and don't forget 3-foot-7 Eddie Gaedel coming to bat in uniform No. 1/8, "Grandstand Manager's Day", when fans could vote to implement in-game strategy by holding up placards, an exploding scoreboard at Comiskey Park, uniforms featuring players in short pants, and, best of all, the infamous 1979 "Disco Demolition Night," which resulted in a riot and a forfeit.

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 12, 2021, 08:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Coaches and bench personnel counting out loud for anything other than the game/shot clock winding down or preventing their own team from getting a violation is attempting to influence an official and is not acceptable in my games. I have T'd a coach for his 3-second count; it was during a team camp.

Haven't had to address this coming from bench personnel /knocks on wood, but I did have to stop a throw-in and tell a 6th grade girl in a CYO game to knock that off when she counted "1-2-3-4-5" rather quickly when she was defending a throw-in as I judged it an attempt to disconcert the thrower-in into thinking she had or was about to commit a violation.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 13, 2021, 01:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stat-Man View Post
Haven't had to address this coming from bench personnel /knocks on wood, but I did have to stop a throw-in and tell a 6th grade girl in a CYO game to knock that off when she counted "1-2-3-4-5" rather quickly when she was defending a throw-in as I judged it an attempt to disconcert the thrower-in into thinking she had or was about to commit a violation.
I don’t agree. There is nothing illegal about distracting an opponent during a throw-in. Your only grounds for telling a counting player to stop is if you believe that it is an attempt to influence the official’s decision.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 13, 2021, 01:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I don’t agree. There is nothing illegal about distracting an opponent during a throw-in. Your only grounds for telling a counting player to stop is if you believe that it is an attempt to influence the official’s decision.
Or, if you deem it to be unsportsmanlike conduct.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 13, 2021, 02:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Or, if you deem it to be unsportsmanlike conduct.
I can’t agree with that take either. There is nothing unsporting about counting out loud while guarding an opponent. It’s the same as hollering, “Ball, ball, ball” or “Dead, dead, dead.” I’m of the opinion that it could only be penalized if it is deemed an attempt to influence the official.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 13, 2021, 10:33am
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Mean Official ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stat-Man View Post
... tell a 6th grade girl in a CYO game to knock that off when she counted "1-2-3-4-5" rather quickly when she was defending a throw-in ...
I hope that you didn't make her cry.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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