Texas A&M /Troy NCAA Women's game (backcourt)?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JMUplayer

... throws a bounce pass ...

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... throws a bounce pass ...

Where is this bounce pass you speak of?

I see a regular (non-bounce) inbound pass followed by a muff, followed by some controversial stuff.

Does anybody still use the term "muff" anymore? I bet that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. still uses the term.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That said, even if they'd called it, it was unlikely to have changed the outcome.

Troy coach Chanda Rigby excitedly exalting players during the timeout preceding this play: "There's 4.5 seconds left".

Texas A&M coach Gary Blair cautiously warning players during the timeout preceding this play: "There's 4.5 seconds left".

Just sayin'.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I saw this play and I saw a different sequence of events...

A&M throws a bounce pass that hits in frontcourt/ deflects off their own player/then, from the frontcourt, starts a dribble that goes into the backcourt / same player goes an retrieves it continues to dribble in the backcourt

Yes, the first touch was not control. However, the 2nd touched was controlled and the start of the dribble by a player that was in the frontcourt at the time.

I think it should have been a violation.

That said, even if they'd called it, it was unlikely to have changed the outcome.

The A&M coach had the best comment on this play. Saying that if the official deemed the player to not be in control of the ball, then it wasn’t backcourt, but it there was control, then it was a violation.

The aspect of control happens very close to the division line. I happen to agree with Cameron that control looks to be established via a dribble just prior crossing the division line.

[JMUplayer]

My bad -- going off memory thought the initial throw in was a bounce pass
(not that it matters)

I know NCAAW have some different rules from NFHS and NCAAM and just wanted to double check

[JMUplayer]

SAME GAME DIFFERENT QUESTION

They called a foul on Troy #25 with about min or so to go... when it looked like the foul should have been on a completely different player

With possession of the basketball and a two-point lead, A&M's Wilson drove the lane and was tripped by a Trojan defender. The foul originally looked to be on the floor and committed by Troy freshman Sharonica Hartsfield, instead the officials whistled Dye for her fifth and final personal foul and ruled that the foul occurred while Nixon was in the shooting motion.

The play wasn't reviewed that i could tell -- #25 had dropped almost 30 points to that point in the game

Is that a reviewable play on the NCAAW level?

[JRutledge]

I think you could make a case that she has control in the FC, but to me that is not a very good argument. I actually find it rather suspect. Just because you touch the ball does not mean you have control at that point. Clearly trying to gain control, but not confident that is what is happening here. And to me you cannot split hairs on a play like this if it is not obvious.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think a discussion can be had that the second time the ball hit the floor it was the start of a dribble -- and that might lead to a BC violation.

This is one of those plays where a legitimate argument can be made either way. If this were an NFL game, the official's call on the field would stand no matter which way they ruled.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JMUplayer

My bad, going off memory thought the initial throw in was a bounce pass (not that it matters).

It doesn't matter, and the first touch did "bounce" off her finger tips.

After two Forum members referred to a bounce pass, I thought that I was going crazy, or blind.

Now where are my glasses?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think you could make a case that she has control in the FC, but to me that is not a very good argument. I actually find it rather suspect. Just because you touch the ball does not mean you have control at that point. Clearly trying to gain control, but not confident that is what is happening here. And to me you cannot split hairs on a play like this if it is not obvious.

Agree.

There's a judgment decision to be made here, in a split second with the official's back up against a sideline table. What was her intent? To intentionally push, throw, or bat the ball to the floor to start a dribble, where starting (and starting alone) said dribble would mean player control and team control in the frontcourt? Or to temporarily tap (without controlling) the ball further away from defenders?

If you are not sure, don’t call it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The A&M coach had the best comment on this play. Saying that if the official deemed the player to not be in control of the ball, then it wasn’t backcourt, but it there was control, then it was a violation.

I noticed that also, pretty astute for a coach.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Troy coach Chanda Rigby excitedly exalting players during the timeout preceding this play: "There's 4.5 seconds left".

Texas A&M coach Gary Blair cautiously warning players during the timeout preceding this play: "There's 4.5 seconds left".

Just sayin'.

Yes...but by the time the potential violation would have stopped the clock, it would probably have been 3 seconds or less. With a throwin near the division line, most teams have a hard time getting a score.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Where is this bounce pass you speak of?

I see a regular (non-bounce) inbound pass followed by a muff, followed by some controversial stuff.

You are correct. The point of the play/discussion really has nothing to do with that, however. The type of pass is entirely irrelevant. I was merely commenting on what happened after the ball was touched inbounds.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

With a throwin near the division line, most teams have a hard time getting a score.

I'm 99 and 44/100's percent sure that 99 and 44/100's percent of actuaries would agree with you.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Just sayin'.

Just sayin'. Cliché. Often meaning, "I hold the stated belief, but I don't have an imperative to act on that belief."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You are correct. The point of the play/discussion really has nothing to do with that, however. The type of pass is entirely irrelevant. I was merely commenting on what happened after the ball was touched inbounds.

Thanks for confirming.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It doesn't matter, and the first touch did "bounce" off her finger tips. After two Forum members referred to a bounce pass, I thought that I was going crazy, or blind. Now where are my glasses?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

There's a judgment decision to be made here, in a split second with the official's back up against a sideline table. What was her intent? To intentionally push, throw, or bat the ball to the floor to start a dribble, where starting (and starting alone) said dribble would mean player control and team control in the frontcourt? Or to temporarily tap (without controlling) the ball further away from defenders?

4.15 COMMENT: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds from her hand, when she fumbles, or when she bats a rebound or pass away from other players who are attempting to get it.