Family Argument: ...and one!?
 

Forgive my amateur terminology...here goes:

A1 begins a try for a basket.
B1 slaps his arm
Ref whistles the obvious Foul
A1 continues his customary upward shooting motion, such that if the Try was successful, it would count for an “and one” situation.
B2 Then grabs A1 arm, preventing completion of the Try.

What is proper call, if any, on B2?

Thanks for your help!

Nothing, as the play is dead at the time the whistle blows for the first foul, unless the contact by B2 is deemed to be flagrant or unsportsmanlike resulting in a technical foul.

Just to be thorough, the fact the play is dead DOES NOT make the ball dead as the try is not over with.

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So coaches should instruct their defenders to foul, intentionally foul, in this situation, because there is no penalty for doing so. Not flagrant, and make it look like a legitimate play, but FOUL! Do not allow shooter to complete a possible 'and one'.

If it's deemed unsportsmanlike, meaning it's not a basketball play, then a tech can be called.

Just like with fouling at the end of the game to stop the clock... Just don't make it obvious.

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Confused In Connecticut ...
 

Agree.

6-7 EXCEPTION C: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap for field goal ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when: (a foul, other than player-control or team-control) occurs by any opponent of a player who has started a try or tap for field goal (is in the act of shooting) before the foul occurred, provided time did not expire before the ball was in flight. The trying motion must be continuous and begins after the ball comes to rest in the player’s hand(s) on a try or touches the hand(s) on a tap, and is completed when the ball is clearly in flight. The trying motion may include arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his/her basket.

Maybe I'm confused.

Live ball (continuation) illegal contact a technical foul?

You sure?

Dammit... No.

I should have kept my mouth shut like I have all season.

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Well, this has the makings of a False Multiple Foul. If the foul by B2 is such that it would be assessed, A1 would get 2 free throws for the foul by B1 then 2 free throws for the foul by B2 and the ball would remain alive after the last (fourth) free throw.

Don't Be Bashful ...
 

Hey, you got the continuation part correct. That's got to count for something. Right?

Let's see if I can find some lengthy 60's song lyrics, a decades-old music video, or an old obscure photo, to make you feel better.

I see you like living on the edge, BillyMac.

Bring A Blanket ...
 

Have fun explaining that to the coach. If he was the visiting coach the explanation would soon be followed by inviting the coach to take a seat on his cold bus in the parking lot.

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Conditional Approach
 

I did say if the foul was assessed on B2. But it's in the OP. (Any video of this kind of play would be helpful).

So, BillyMac: you, Team A's coach, the custodian, the deputy sheriff, and any spectators in the stands see B2's 'purposeful' foul on A1, who's (presumably) still in the Act of Shooting. What do you call? I see a risk in considering it as merely incidental based on the original description.

In the real world, the second foul is ignored. It NEVER happens that B2's fouls only to prevent A1 from completing the "and 1"

Hypothetically, if it does ... well, the rules are there

Case Book is my Friend
 

Similar to, but not quite like, the OP.

4.19.12 SITUATION

B1 fouls airborne A1 who is in the act of shooting. Before airborne shooter A1 returns one foot to the floor, he/she is fouled by B2 who has moved into A1’s landing area. The ball: (a) does; or (b) does not, enter the basket.

This is a false multiple foul and each foul carries its own penalty. In (a), the goal is counted and A1 is awarded one free throw for each foul. In (b), A1 is awarded two free throws for each foul. (10 PENALTY 6, 10 PENALTY 7)

Why else would B2 foul A1? It is to prevent A1 from scoring a basket!

Because he's just playing defense. B2 is NOT going to think "b1 already fouled A1 so I can get in a free shot."

That makes no sense...the ball is live and that is all you have. There is no such thing as a dead play.

This is the reason the multiple foul is in the books....if you have players doing that on purpose, it is time to pull out the multiple foul. I've never seen it happen, however and do not expect to.

Can't Be By A Sixteen Post Grasshopper ...
 

Nice citation. Is that you Nevadaref? Why are you posting under Mike Goodwin's username?

Never Know When You'll Need Something ...
 

That's why we all wear a multipurpose utility toolbelt.

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Concession Stand Hot Single Moms ...
 

Forgot the hot single Moms running the concession stand.

Struck up a conversation with a few parents during one of our Connecticut COVID mask breaks yesterday. Not many parents, COVID limit of two parents per player, no other spectators. Explained that I could get use to this mask idea because I looked a lot more handsome wearing a mask and I got to meet a lot more hot single Moms in the bleachers. I got the laugh I had hoped for. Actually better than expected. I guess that fans aren't use to officials being self deprecating. Should have finished the conversation with, "I'll be here the entire game folks. Enjoy the all you can eat hot dog and popcorn buffet".

I guess when I imagined this play, I was thinking about a slow motion, deliberate Euro-Step move. There could be time after the initial foul for another defender to slap the shooters forearm, etc.

The Roar Of The Crowd, More Of A Murmur ...
 

Different dynamic in the game this year with just a few dozen spectators in the cheap seats. Can hear individuals who are just normally talking, not necessarily yelling.

Called a foul on a player yesterday. He seemed frustrated with my call, started to say something to me, but got cut off mid sentence by his Mom, "That's enough Junior. You fouled him". Player immediately shut up and meekly headed to the free throw lane with his tail between his legs. Nice. Embarrassing, but nice.

Unfortunately, in the same game, my partner was harassed by an anti-masker Dad after we continually reminded players (more of a problem with one team than the other) to wear their masks properly, over both the nose and mouth. Site director just stood up, pointed at the Dad from across the gym, didn't even have to say anything, and that ended that. Reminded me of Babe Ruth calling his shot. Nice. Thanks site director.

Agree that the first few posts were less than erudite.

BTW, believe you meant FMF rather than MF. MFs are in the rules, too, but they are even less likely to ever be seen as officials will just pick the fouler in this case (hopefully the scrub rather than the stud).

The only time I could ever see a MF being assessed is if two officials both make the call and go to the table and both report a different dude while not realizing the other is also reporting at the same time. Then you could conceivably have to assess both because the cat was out of the bag, sort of like how you assess a DF on a blarge. But the odds of that happening and one official not yielding are astronomically low.


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I actually meant MF. The MF is two players fouling the same opponent at "approximately" the same time. How far apart is close enough to be "approximately"?

I know there is a similar case play which goes to FMF but at what point does it cease to be a MF and become a FMF. That isn't specified.