Player removed jersey before leaving floor
 

Just saw a replay of a male college player removing his jersey before he left the floor. This occurred after his 5th personal foul and as he was leaving the floor. He was clearly not happy with call (lip reading BS, FU, etc.) and was disappointed as this was a tournament game and his team was losing and eventually lost. He had no undershirt and threw the jersey beyond the bench. Not sure if any of the on court officials saw this happen. This occurred with less than 2 minutes left in the game. My question is, does this act warrant a technical foul?

Under NFHS (high school) rules, this would be a T to the player and an indirect to the head coach if the player's replacement had been beckoned.

The indirect T has nothing to do with the beckoning of the substitute. This is a DQ situation and the notifying of the coach is what determines when he becomes bench personnel.

Thanks for the clarification. I apologize for the incorrect information.

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 

10-4-6-H: A player must not: Removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.

10-5: The head coach is responsible for his/her own conduct and behavior, as well as substitutes, disqualified team members and all other bench personnel.

2-8-4: The officials must: Notify the head coach and request the timer to begin the replacement interval, and then notify the player on a disqualification.

3-3-3: A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.

4-14-2: A player is officially disqualified and becomes bench personnel when the coach is notified by an official.

4-34-3: A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.

2005-06 NFHS Basketball Rules Changes
3-4-15 Prohibits a team member from removing his/her jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area. The penalty is a technical foul.

Comments On The 2005-06 Rules Revisions
Jerseys/Pants/Skirts Prohibited From Being Removed (3-4-15, 10-3-7h, 10-4-1h): A team member is prohibited from removing his/her jersey and/or pants/skirt within the confines of the playing area. The penalty is a technical foul. The former uniform rule didn't require team members to actually wear the team uniform. This addition also addresses a growing behavioral concern of players removing their jerseys to demonstrate frustration or anger and as a means of attracting individual attention. The rule is intended to be applied in all situations - even when a player must change uniforms due to blood or other unusual circumstances. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to go to their locker rooms to change their jerseys.

The NCAA has no rule regarding removal of a player's jersey.

The other acts he took could, of course, have warranted a technical foul.

The NCAA may have no rule about shirt removal but I think it is fair to say that is an unsporting act.

At that level? Not a chance or not just for doing that. There could be all other kinds of things going on. He or she throws their jersey, maybe, but not just for removing it. Even the NF rule is kind of silly on many levels and is a very technical thing to call.

Peace

Not The Same ...
 

Agree.

High school player fouls out and takes off his jersey and throws it to the bench in frustration directed at an official. Technical foul.

Player is advised in layup line that he can't play with an an illegal undershirt and he quietly and politely goes over to his bench to remove it to comply with a rule and in doing so temporarily removes his jersey. My opinion, not the same as above (even if the NFHS says otherwise).

The NFHS made this change sometime around when Brandi Chastain (US Women's Soccer) made SI's cover with a shirt removal. Many in the NFHS world didn't want teenage girls emulating that and/or thought it was improper for girls to be removing their shirts in public even though that were not naked and had a sports bra or similar under it. So, at least partially due to the above, they made it illegal to take the shirt off in the gym even if it wasn't unsportsmanlike. To be equal, the rule was made to apply to boys just the same.

So Fire Me. ...
 

Comments On The 2005-06 Rules Revisions
Jerseys/Pants/Skirts Prohibited From Being Removed ... The rule is intended to be applied in all situations - even when a player must change uniforms due to blood or other unusual circumstances. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to go to their locker rooms to change their jerseys.

I'm 100% wrong, but if I advise a player that he can't play with an illegal undershirt, I'm ignoring what happens next.

Yeah. I know that we can easily advise that the player go to the locker room, but I'm still ignoring what happens next.

I'm what'cha call a rebel. Yeah. A rebel, I tell you. A rebel.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.O...=0&w=176&h=172

Chastain’s jersey removal was following winning the 1999 women’s World Cup. The NFHS rule was 2005. I know that the NFHS is slow with rule changes/new rules, but six years afterward is probably not in response to that act.

Fuddy Duddies ...
 

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.q...=0&w=300&h=300

Many years ago, when coaching at summer camps, I do remember being embarrassed when high school girls switched reversible jerseys in front of male coaches and, yikes, high school boys.

It wasn't direct, it was after similar actions continued to grow over the next few years.

It was a real issue in VB for a number of years around that time. My guess is that the NFHS decided that if they added it to one sport, they needed to add it to all sports (and then if they added it for one sex, they needed to add it for both sexes).

Bewildering ...
 

In know more about metaphysics than I do about volleyball rules, but does this have anything to do with one player wearing a different color jersey (for reasons that bewilder me), as I've seen in some college volleyball games on television?

No. It has to do with HS girls wearing warm-up tops and changing behind the bench out of (removing ) the warmup tops and into game jerseys. It wasn't a game jersey UNDER a "sweat shirt" like you see in basketball.

The libero wears a different color jersey for much the same reason a goalie in soccer does -- different rules apply and the referees (and opponents) need to be able to easily identify this person.

Libero ...
 

Thank you and thank you.

I'm 99% sure that this stuff about removing part of the uniform was added to every NFHS rule book in the same year.

That was my understanding as well. The NF takes rules or philosophy of rules and applies it across the board. Every new rule is reviewed by other committees to see if it fits like unsporting behavior or uniform standards.

Peace

This is the video

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/26sqy4flGAA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

For the record, there is no rule at the NCAA level specifically calling this an unsporting act. It might be seen as one, but not at that level stated. It is stated at the NF level and I wish they would be more specific or state that it only applies to removing the jersey. Simply pulling out the jersey and not being disgusted or showing "disgustment" to me is a bridge too far. We should not be looking for this kind of stuff if they are not saying anything to us or not yelling at the top of their lungs. Let the coach handle them at this point if they are coming to the bench.

Peace

A Player Must Not Remove The Jersey ...
 

The NFHS high school rule, especially with the 2005-06 comment on the rule revision, makes the NFHS intent very clear.

10-4-6-H: A player must not: Removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.

Comments On The 2005-06 Rules Revisions: Jerseys/Pants/Skirts Prohibited From Being Removed (3-4-15, 10-3-7h, 10-4-1h): A team member is prohibited from removing his/her jersey and/or pants/skirt within the confines of the playing area. The penalty is a technical foul ... This addition also addresses a growing behavioral concern of players removing their jerseys to demonstrate frustration or anger and as a means of attracting individual attention. The rule is intended to be applied in all situations - even when a player must change uniforms due to blood or other unusual circumstances. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to go to their locker rooms to change their jerseys.

I know that I'm wrong, but I'm not a big fan of penalizing every time a jersey is temporarily removed for a not-unsporting reason (to comply with a rule), and will occasionally ignore such behavior.

Hyperbole ...
 

... So, following my advice, he goes to the locker room to temporarily remove his jersey to comply with a rule and remove an illegal undershirt, but I forget to remind him that he must be accompanied by an adult, and the knucklehead trips and drowns in a toilet. Attorney billable hours aren't cheap.

Too many steps. Can't play with illegal undershirt. Can't temporarily remove a jersey in a not-unsporting manner to comply with a rule within the visual confines of the playing area. Can't go to the locker room unless accompanied by an adult.

Can't. Can't. Can't. Sounds like my mother from sixty years ago.

I'd rather just ignore the temporary not-unsporting removal of a jersey within the visual confines of the playing area for the purpose of removing an illegal undershirt to comply with a rule.

By rule, and interpretation, I'm wrong, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.V...=0&w=300&h=300

Interesting Removing Jersey Debate ...
 

Misty watercolor Forum memories from February 2015:

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...tml#post954696

Unsporting ...
 

The technical foul is for an unsporting act. The NFHS defines removing the jersey to be an unsporting act. The NFHS lists it as being one of many examples of unsporting acts. So there's not much wiggle room, it is what it is.

By rule, I'm wrong, but I disagree that every instance of a player removing one's jersey is automatically an unsporting act. Being around basketball for over fifty years as a player, coach, and official, I know unsporting when I see it and some instances of players removing jerseys are not unsporting. A player temporarily removing a jersey to comply with a rule is not unsporting. It is unsporting by NFHS definition, but in the larger scheme of things regarding good sportsmanship, it isn't really unsporting. I believe that the NFHS has thrown out the baby with the bathwater.

10-4-6-H: A player must not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: Removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.

10-5-1-H: Bench personnel, including the head coach, must not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: Removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.s...=0&w=352&h=166

Topless Photo ...
 

Playing his second hole of the opening round (Honda Classic) and coming off a bogey at his first, Sebastian Cappelen did what he felt needed to be done – he stripped off his shirt, one shoe and a sock, rolled up his pants, and tried to save par.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/9y...47a43d5bbef41a

Unsporting? One stroke penalty?

Camron is very correct concerning the rule change. While Brandi jersey removal was of great concern to the NFHS Rules Committee, there as also a more the more pressing problem that male professional soccer players by this time had started ripping off their jerseys as a way to show displeasure with a Referee's call in the pitch and male basketball players at the AAU/YBOA and H.S. levels were emulating the soccer players (I am still mystified that American male basketball players at the level were emulating male professional soccer players, :eek:, but that is a discussion for another time.). That said, those in pay grades higher that Camron and me thought the even if the reason for removing the jersey was for changing from damaged jersey or a jersey with blood on it, the player must do it out of sight of the Court.

Now for an amusing and true anecdote. I have a women's college official from Canada who had a game between a National Team of one of the Scanadavian countries against a Candanian college. The Visitor's brought their "home" jerseys to the arena and not their "visitor" jerseys. The Home School offered the Visitors their away jerseys for the game which the Visitors readily accepted the offer. The Home School managers brought the jerseys to the Visitor's Bench assuming that the Visitors would go to its lockerroom and change jerseys. But no, they changed right at courtside. And when they did, the air was sucked out of the gymnasium when the spectators discovered the most of the Visitors did not wear even sports bras under their jerseys, :eek:!

MTD, Sr.

Excellent point Billy.

MTD, Sr.