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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 08, 2021, 02:46pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
We have a "loss of coaching box" report. So player technicals get no report, but bench technicals do.


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These stupid reports are part of the problem. Too many high school officials just don't want to do paperwork and would rather ignore the behavior.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 08, 2021, 02:50pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
These stupid reports are part of the problem. Too many high school officials just don't want to do paperwork and would rather ignore the behavior.


Many just don't complete the report.

As an assigner I want to know when a coach gets whacked. I'd better hear from the official and not just the school.


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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 08, 2021, 03:04pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Many just don't complete the report.

As an assigner I want to know when a coach gets whacked. I'd better hear from the official and not just the school.


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I completely understand that you want a phone call after the game but for some reason the thought of writing a report that will be on record with the state causes so many high school officials to just ignore unsporting behavior. Or perhaps that is just the convenient excuse they use and they really just don't have the stones to handle business.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 08, 2021, 03:07pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Forty years ago, when I first started out, I gave out a lot of technical fouls. Part of the reason was because I could (hypnotized by this new power that I held). Another reason was that back then my high school assigner also assigned a few mens recreation leagues, games that were mostly assigned to inexperienced officials and we all know about the crap that occurs in those games (especially with an inexperienced official making some rookie bad calls).

As I progressed to subvarsity high school games, I noticed that my subvarsity partners and the varsity officials that I observed seemed to less frequently charge technical fouls.

One reason, and not a good one, was that (here in Connecticut) coaches "vote" officials into the state tournament. I never subscribed to this idea. I guess that these lenient officials didn't realize that while one voting coach may appreciate the "free pass", the opposing voting coach may not, believing that officials should "take care of business".

Another reason was that many veteran varsity officials prided themselves on their game management skills, using their superior communication and "people" skills to manage coaches "on the cusp".

For me, now in my fortieth year, I do pride myself on my game management, communication, and "people" skills, but also know the value of using technical fouls as one of the many tools that I have at my disposal to manage the game.
I think part of the problem is that too many officials are under the impression that being a good communicator and issuing technical fouls are mutually exclusive. Because they have been brainwashed by coaches who think that way and announcers on TV.

In my experience college coaches almost always quickly move on after getting a T and go back to coaching for the rest of the game. I cannot say the same about more than one high school coach I have experienced who takes it personally and threatens to "scratch" me.

Again, the NBA philosophy is the way it should be at the lower levels. Especially in HS where we are preached to about how the games are an extension of the classroom.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 08, 2021, 11:53pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I think part of the problem is that too many officials are under the impression that being a good communicator and issuing technical fouls are mutually exclusive. Because they have been brainwashed by coaches who think that way and announcers on TV.

In my experience college coaches almost always quickly move on after getting a T and go back to coaching for the rest of the game. I cannot say the same about more than one high school coach I have experienced who takes it personally and threatens to "scratch" me.

Again, the NBA philosophy is the way it should be at the lower levels. Especially in HS where we are preached to about how the games are an extension of the classroom.


I've found that the written warning the NFHS put in place has stopped coaches - and I don't hesitate to go to it.

Working a regional championship this season, the home coach was unhappy we didn't call a travel and did a dance to demonstrate. It was a bit over the top and I immediately hit the whistle and put a warning in the book. No discussion. And that was that.

Once warned, no more warnings, though.


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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 09, 2021, 02:47am
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I've found that the written warning the NFHS put in place has stopped coaches - and I don't hesitate to go to it.
I've been having good success with the written warning this season. No HC has been assessed a technical foul for any subsequent behavior in the same game where a warning was recorded.

Some of my peer group have also started to issue more warnings than they have in previous seasons.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 09, 2021, 12:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I've found that the written warning the NFHS put in place has stopped coaches - and I don't hesitate to go to it.

Working a regional championship this season, the home coach was unhappy we didn't call a travel and did a dance to demonstrate. It was a bit over the top and I immediately hit the whistle and put a warning in the book. No discussion. And that was that.

Once warned, no more warnings, though.
To me this is like the stop sign, it leads to other shit. I stopped using it a year ago. And some things do not need a warning, they need action. Maybe I will change my mind, but I doubt it.

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 09, 2021, 12:27pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
To me this is like the stop sign, it leads to other shit. I stopped using it a year ago. And some things do not need a warning, they need action. Maybe I will change my mind, but I doubt it.

Peace
I worked a college game this season where my partner did the whole "Head coach warning, put it in the book" thing. The assigner was watching online and was not a fan - he basically said if you are going to stop the game to let everyone know the coach has been warned, you might as well just stick him and be done with it. This is more akin to the NBA philosophy - the first technical foul is their warning that they are going to be ejected if they continue. And I personally agree with that philosophy.

And that is notwithstanding the fact that in NCAA-M you are not supposed to put a warning in the book unless it is a coaching box warning (this coach was not out of the box). The assigner did not even mention that aspect.

I have stopped using the "official warning" in NFHS games, as well, for the most part.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 09, 2021, 12:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I've found that the written warning the NFHS put in place has stopped coaches - and I don't hesitate to go to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin View Post
I've been having good success with the written warning this season. No HC has been assessed a technical foul for any subsequent behavior in the same game where a warning was recorded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
...it leads to other shit. I stopped using it a year ago. And some things do not need a warning, they need action
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
... if you are going to stop the game to let everyone know the coach has been warned, you might as well just stick him and be done with it. I have stopped using the "official warning" in NFHS games, as well, for the most part.
What works for one might not work for all, and vice versa. Just another tool that some choose to use, and others choose not to use.

In borderline situations, I've used both, sometimes (written) warning, sometimes going directly to the technical foul. Depends on a lot of factors in borderline situations; what's been said, tone, frequency, volume, gestures, box issues, my patience (or lack of), my mood (pissed off), etc.

In many situations where I would, in the past, ignore, or possibly give a vocal warning, and then "take care of business" later, the written warning is a nice substitute for ignoring, or a nice substitute for a vocal warning, before "taking care of business", but is not a substitute for something that requires an official to immediately "take care of business".
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 09, 2021, 12:55pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I worked a college game this season where my partner did the whole "Head coach warning, put it in the book" thing. The assigner was watching online and was not a fan - he basically said if you are going to stop the game to let everyone know the coach has been warned, you might as well just stick him and be done with it. This is more akin to the NBA philosophy - the first technical foul is their warning that they are going to be ejected if they continue. And I personally agree with that philosophy.

And that is notwithstanding the fact that in NCAA-M you are not supposed to put a warning in the book unless it is a coaching box warning (this coach was not out of the box). The assigner did not even mention that aspect.

I have stopped using the "official warning" in NFHS games, as well, for the most part.
There is only a coach's box warning on the NCAA Men's side. And this year with the Covid restrictions, it has rarely if ever been an issue. Everyone is so far back and off the court, coaches do not feel the need to come onto the court. I did improperly a few years ago use a "bench warning" in a college game but immediately after I did that, the coach got a T from my partner (code creep).

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 09, 2021, 01:28pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
There is only a coach's box warning on the NCAA Men's side. And this year with the Covid restrictions, it has rarely if ever been an issue. Everyone is so far back and off the court, coaches do not feel the need to come onto the court. I did improperly a few years ago use a "bench warning" in a college game but immediately after I did that, the coach got a T from my partner (code creep).

Peace
I am well aware and even stated in my post you quoted that there is only a coaching box warning in NCAA-M. However I can tell you that plenty of assigners and officials do not know this, and some assigners who do know this still want “conduct warnings” documented in the book since it apparently makes their lives easier if the coach calls them after the game. The assigner of the game I referred to in my previous post was not one of them. I do know JD Collins noted within the past couple years in some communication that the rules do not allow for “official warnings” unless it is for the coach being out of the box.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 09, 2021, 03:16pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
To me this is like the stop sign, it leads to other shit. I stopped using it a year ago. And some things do not need a warning, they need action. Maybe I will change my mind, but I doubt it.



Peace


The behavior ends or I whack the coach. I'm doing the coach a favor by not going right to the T.

I'm done with any verbal warnings, too. If I need to get a coach to knock it off, the written warning is my warning. Period.


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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 09, 2021, 09:44pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I am well aware and even stated in my post you quoted that there is only a coaching box warning in NCAA-M. However I can tell you that plenty of assigners and officials do not know this, and some assigners who do know this still want “conduct warnings” documented in the book since it apparently makes their lives easier if the coach calls them after the game. The assigner of the game I referred to in my previous post was not one of them. I do know JD Collins noted within the past couple years in some communication that the rules do not allow for “official warnings” unless it is for the coach being out of the box.
I was making that statement based on the story I told about what I did incorrectly. I know what you stated, but I did something admittedly incorrect for that level. I did it to try to make a point but it did not work.

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