pregame dunk
 

During pregame warmups, a player attempts to dunk a layup, but the dunk does not go in. Is this still cause for 't'?
Thanks in advance

By rule it is. The rule states "A player shall not dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball."

*Good point ilyaz; however, it takes temerity to make that type of call. I was on a crew this season when that happened and we were all at mid court pregame, and I looked at the R to take leadership and make the call, but she did nothing but shrug.

And The Coach Sits ...
 

If it's close (questionable drop in, or dunk) I may warn, but if it's unequivocally positively 100% a dunk, or dunk attempt, I will charge the technical foul, and I'm not waiting to get permission from the referee.

Question: Whistle, or no whistle?

I say no whistle, just a walk over and have a chat with the offending player, then walk over and chat with the offending head coach (letting him know that he has to find a comfortable chair), stop by the table for a chat, then chat with the opposing head coach.

There is a case play which gives the proper procedure for this. It states not to sound the whistle.

Always The King Of Interpretations ...
 

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.v...=0&w=301&h=168

10.5.1 SITUATION E: Fifteen minutes before the game is scheduled to start, team member A1 dunks. Two minutes later A2 dunks. RULING: A1 and A2 are both charged with a technical foul. In addition, the head coach is charged indirectly with a technical foul for each act. The two fouls are team fouls for purpose of reaching the bonus. When dunking occurs during the pregame practice period the official notifies the team member and the head coach, but does not sound the whistle. If the game is played in a state which utilizes the optional coaching box, the coach should be informed that he/she has lost the privilege of using the coaching box for the entire game. (10-4-1i)

Just happened to me this afternoon. Short athletic kid attempts to dunk, gets above the rim, makes a fool of hi....I mean, misses.

The crew was late coming out due to COVID timelines that shorten our pregame floor time. So I cut some slack because our jurisdiction may not have been fully observed yet. But mostly because I just 100% knew that the grizzled veteran R on our crew was not interested in the specter of assessing a pre-game dunking T.

I did go talk to the player, though.


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*As I had observed before,Mr. CC55, it takes temerity to make that kind of call.
Lol @ "spectre of a pregame tech.."

Do They Still Sound Pregame Whistles In Texas ???
 

If you're not 100% sure it's a dunk, or a dunk attempt, and if you're not 100% sure that it was under your jurisdiction, then it's probably not T-worthy.

When in Rome ...

Good. Better than ...

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.x...=0&w=300&h=300

(Young'uns can check out Sergeant Schultz/Hogan's Heroes on the Google.)

This is a bad part of a case play. If the official had sounded his whistle after the first one, A2 likely doesn't attempt a second.

Whistle While You Work ...
 

Interesting point. I always thought that "but does not sound the whistle" was more of a mechanics situation rather than a rules situation and often wondered about its purpose in the casebook.

Do they still sound pregame, "Warning. We're here. Stop dunking", whistles in Texas?

"This is a bad part of a case play."

The case plays says to tell the offender and the head coach, but it doesn't prevent the official from also telling the other players not to dunk: "Son, that's a T. Listen up, everybody, don't dunk!"

Preventive officiating (from that point on), problem solved.

I Only Have Eyes For You (The Flamingos, 1959) ...
 

I'm not a big fan of a "Hey everybody. Look at me." pregame whistle, but it would definitely let everybody in the gym, players on both teams, coaches, fans, police officer in the corner, priest on the bench, hot single Mom selling hot dogs in the concession stand, know that there will be no ignoring of pregame dunking that night.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fWoWYPXXwvE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stop it, BillyMac. You can accomplish this without becoming the center of attention. You've never stepped towards players on the layup line and said to them all, "tuck your shirts in" or something like that? And it need not be shouted, it can be done in a conversational tone.

I wish you'd stop channeling Mark Padgett; it's rarely amusing.

Pregame Whistle ...
 

I was referring to sounding a whistle. A whistle seven minutes before the game begins would most certainly elicit attention.

"Tuck your shirts in"? Layup line? Never. I've got bigger fish to fry.

Earrings, undershirts, headbands, wrist bands, sleeves, earphones, long fingernails, making me decide if it's a dunk or not? Yes. Absolutely.

It certainly can, and I do it (see above), but a whistle would let everybody on both teams know that there will be no ignoring of pregame dunking that night, maybe preventing a second illegal pregame dunk down the other end of the court (extrapolating Altor's post).

However, I'll just continue follow 10.5.1 SITUATION E.

Music Blaring Throughout The Gym ...
 

Are the players down the other end of the court going to be warned with this statement in a conversational tone over the music blaring throughout the gym?

Again, I'm not a big fan of the pregame dunking whistle, nor am I to willing to ignore 10.5.1 SITUATION E and be the first one on my block to do it, but, like Altor, I see some value in it, and I wouldn't take my whistle and go home if the interpretation was changed.

What the hell are you talking about?

Jeez, I should have known better than to interject into one of your conversations with yourself. Either you have no common sense, you enjoy splitting hairs, or you are a troll. When you wondered why traffic here seems to have tapered off, look in the mirror.

Pregame Dunking Whistle ...
 

While I have been known to reply to my own posts after further reflection, this is not the case here. All of my posts in this thread, even a single back-to-back, have been replies to other members posts.

Bottom line. I'm not a big fan of the pregame dunking whistle, nor is the NFHS, but I see some value (as does Altor) in it because it may prevent a subsequent "violation". While I agree with LRZ that warning (before or after charging a technical foul) players in a layup line in a conversational tone is a good preventative measure (for many issues, not just pregame dunking), it only works for those within earshot (in a gym with blasting music). A whistle (again, I'm not a fan) sounded will be a preventative measure for everybody in the gym, not only those that are within conversational tone earshot ("Hey. Look down there. He got T-ed up for dunking. We should be more careful".)

I'm not looking to T-up players for pregame dunking, I will try to prevent pregame dunking from happening, but if I have to T-up players, I will.

Maybe Texans have the right idea?

It's my fault. This is one of those times where I simply disagree with a rule or case (or in this case, a single sentence fragment within a case). I pointed out my disagreement.

Do what you need to do and what you feel is best after reading the appropriate materials from the NFHS and your assignors.

Gospel Truth ...
 

No need to fall on your sword. It was a good point that had some value regarding preventative officiating.

Ain't that the gospel truth.

I've gone almost 20 years without sounding my whistle nor seeing anyone else sound their whistle. The 3-4 times I've been involved in games where players were T'd for dunking (including one D1 game before the rule change), the players were well aware officials were standing right there on the sidelines.

Now we need to announce ourselves with whistles all of a sudden?

Double The Fun ...
 

Forty years for me. Exactly the same thing.

Altor's casebook interpretation comment wasn't about "announce(ing) ourselves", rather it was about announcing (by whistle) the actual technical foul. Texas is the only place I know of that announces themselves with a pregame "entering the court" whistle.

I'll just continue follow 10.5.1 SITUATION E, as I've been doing, and as my local colleagues have been doing, for forty years.

Well, the ultimate problem is that there is a rule that is clear and the coaches for some dumb reason never address it. So you see officials do all kinds of things to not have to call a T anyway they can. I am in support of all of it personally if it gets you over. Part of it too is that even when you see it, we have to argue about it with someone. Either the coach that saw it on the other team or the coach of the team that did it.

I had to call it at the beginning of the season last year. I did not personally see it, but I heard it for sure. And it took the next 5 minutes to tell the coach he had to sit down and he wanted me to "give him a break."

I am good with whatever people want to do here and I have done both. In some situations, if I do not do it that way we will have multiple Ts because silly coaches never address this with their teams.

Peace

I Already Know, Old Joke, But A Goodie ...
 

Arm, leg, or neck?

Working with a guy the other day that reported a story to me about a crew that Td up a kid for pregame dunking. Problem was they were in the locker room and someone part of either the coaching or game admin staff came in with video of said dunking. They went out and issued the T based on the video.

Ouch ...
 

I've got an opposite story about a crew that exited to the locker room after a game, well outside the visual confines of the court, and were convinced by a coach and athletic director to come back out to the the gym to fix a scoring error that, in the end, overturned the result of the game. One of the officials was a guy that I often worked with and I considered him to be a very good official, who's day job was that of a highly respected attorney, so he was not a stupid person. I felt bad for him, the newspaper story named him and the story made all the large statewide newspapers, not just the local newspaper.

That's why it's good practice in the final minute of a close game during timeouts to go over and try to head off a potential issue. Especially if you've had some odd sequences that could of led to scoring confusion.

Actually I get a chuckle out of the nostalgia of hot mom jokes from time to time.


Bully.


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Any Problems With The Books Guys ???
 

Unless it's forty-point blowout, great advice.

That's why he said "close game" in his post. It's something I've been doing for years, even when I'm not the 'R'.

Mark Padget Remembered ...
 

I would often try to convince Mark Padgett to switch his jokes from "Hot Mom" to "Hot single Mom", not wanting to encourage officials to become home wreckers.

I miss Mark Padgett. Not only because of his great sense of humor, his childhood South Side of Chicago mobster stories, his pride in his Jewish faith, and his pride in the recreation leagues that he organized (offering "scholarships" to underprivileged youth), but also because of his insight into officiating recreation level basketball.

Sometimes some us forget that there's a whole world of basketball officiating under the professional, international, intercollegiate, and interscholastic level, and that the kids that play at these levels deserve to have some minimum level of competent officiating to fully enjoy their childhood basketball experiences. For some, perhaps many, this will be their last experience in organized basketball, and Mark Padgett was the guy to insure that their recreation experience was going to be a great one.

Scoreboard, Points, Fouls, Timeouts, Numbers Match ???
 

Whoever is closest to the table.

Your English teacher would be disappointed.

Is That You Mr. Baumgartner ???
 

The easiest and most commonly recognized subject placement is the very first word of a sentence; whenever a sentence starts with a pronoun, you can bet it will be "I," "he," "she," "they," "who," or "whoever":
Whoever finishes the race first wins a trophy.
Whoever wants to go on the field trip is free to come.

Fixed it.

Listen you whippersnapper! Wait to get to be our age and I guarentee you will change your mind. :p

MTD, Sr.

P.S. I am in awe of Billy's technical skills to post these memes!

The Google ...
 

Neanderthal Ancestry ...
 

I spit into a tube for 23andMe and discovered that Neanderthal ancestry accounts for about 4% of my overall DNA.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fe/12/28/f...6c9fcef8c2.jpg

Royal Forum Member Instead Of Esteemed Forum Member ???
 

Also: BillyMac ancestors in northern Ireland are direct paternal descendants of the Uí Néill ("descendants of Niall") dynasty, including Niall of the Nine Hostages. Niall of the Nine Hostages is said to have been a King of Tara in northwestern Ireland in the late 4th century C.E. His name comes from a tale of nine hostages that he held from the regions he ruled over.

Prince BillyMac?