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BigT Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:45pm

Options
 
GV game. 2 man. Visitors are down 2 points drop it into the low block. L is 2 feet away looking between Defender and post player. Partner barely steps into the frontcourt. Post player turns goes straight up and shoots. Defender jumps straight up. 6 inches between the two no foul girl misses. Trail calls phantom foul from mid-court.

Is it possible to do a partner conference and tell him to report an inadvertent whistle and go AP?

Or are you putting a girl on the line to possible go OT. Yeah this was 4th quarter with 2 seconds on the clock when the shooter shoots.

Thanks in advance,

WhistlesAndStripes Thu Jan 07, 2021 04:29am

You can have a quick partner conference, but itís ultimate up to your partner to change his call to an IW.


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BigT Thu Jan 07, 2021 09:08am

If he agrees to not report you could conference both coaches explain the IW and explain what you are doing next and by rule you could avoid disaster.

WhistlesAndStripes Thu Jan 07, 2021 09:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 1040815)
If he agrees to not report you could conference both coaches explain the IW and explain what you are doing next and by rule you could avoid disaster.


The disaster being the possible overtime period that may occur. [emoji23][emoji23]


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SC Official Thu Jan 07, 2021 09:18am

I would tell the Trail "There was no contact and no foul, we're going with an inadvertent whistle and the arrow." I wouldn't even let him get a word in before I'm hitting my whistle with my thumbs up.

I dare him to call the assigner.

LRZ Thu Jan 07, 2021 09:27am

Rule 2-6: "No official has the authority to set aside or question decisions made by the other official(s) within the limits of their respective outlined duties."

Setting aside the T's poor positioning and lack of hustle, let me play devil's advocate: how do you (the L) know you are right (no contact) and he is wrong ("I had a good angle and I saw contact")?

My approach might be something like this: "I had a good angle, close to the play, and I had a clean play. What did you see from mid-court/30 feet away?" You might have to live with his call and let him go or stay table-side, then block him on Arbiter.

SC Official Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1040818)
Rule 2-6: "No official has the authority to set aside or question decisions made by the other official(s) within the limits of their respective outlined duties."

Setting aside the T's poor positioning and lack of hustle, let me play devil's advocate: how do you (the L) know you are right (no contact) and he is wrong ("I had a good angle and I saw contact")?

My approach might be something like this: "I had a good angle, close to the play, and I had a clean play. What did you see from mid-court/30 feet away?" You might have to live with his call and let him go or stay table-side, then block him on Arbiter.

In the OP you said there was "six inches between the two," implying there was zero contact. By rule if there is no contact there cannot be a foul. If there's any contact whatsoever, then let him live and die with it. But I'm not letting some career first-year official decide the game with his laziness and idiotic play-calling. And as much as we try and say "we should officiate the same way the entire game," the reality is that an incorrect call at the end of the game is exponentially more consequential than one in the first quarter.

Kinda reminds me of the video a couple years ago posted to this forum where the one of the officials stepped over the other official administering a throw-in to call a 5-second violation. Sorry, but I am not allowing that in my game.

BillyMac Thu Jan 07, 2021 01:08pm

Be Late, Be Right, Be Needed ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1040818)
Rule 2-6: "No official has the authority to set aside or question decisions made by the other official(s) within the limits of their respective outlined duties." Setting aside the T's poor positioning and lack of hustle, let me play devil's advocate: how do you (the L) know you are right (no contact) and he is wrong ("I had a good angle and I saw contact")?

For me personally, with a well respected experienced veteran partner, even if it was very late in a very close game, this is not a double whistle situation (travel/foul, held ball/foul, etc.) and there will be no conference on the court (as with offering helpful information on a single whistle out of bounds call). However, there may be a conference ("What did you see?) in the locker room, unless I'm the much lower ranked official and my partner thinks he's God's gift to basketball officiating, in which case there will be no locker room conference.

If the trail was spanking brand new (as new as a dew drop on a leaf at twilight), or the worst official on my board (not the sharpest tool in the shed), especially if it was very late in a close game (as in the original post), I would never overturn his call (see LRZ's Rule 2-6). Rather, I would intercept him and stop him on the way to the reporting area and have a short conference, starting with me saying, "What did you see? Did you get a good look at that?". If he says something like, "Since she missed I figured that there must have been some contact.", I'll respond with, "Well I had a great angle and this is what I saw ...", and offer my partner the chance to change his call (inadvertent whistle), but only if he want to.

On the other hand, if he responds confidently, "The shooter got slapped on the arm from behind.", I'm responding, "Nice call. Thanks for the help" and let him report the foul while I go and line up the rebounders and find the shooter as any good non-calling partner should.

If the trail is the worst official on my board (not the the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree), and the call was in the beginning of the second period (not as in the original post), I'm probably doing nothing other than thinking to myself, "Well, he blew that one. Hopefully it will be his last blown call of the game".

If he's spanking brand new (as new as the dawn), and the call was in the beginning of the second period (not as in the original post), and the rookie official has some potential to be a good official, I probably would, at halftime, or after the game, in the locker room, broach the subject about making calls outside of one's primary coverage area (be late, be right, be needed).

BillyMac Thu Jan 07, 2021 01:13pm

An Oldie But Goodie ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1040819)
Kinda reminds me of the video a couple years ago posted to this forum where the one of the officials stepped over the other official administering a throw-in to call a 5-second violation.

Nice reference. An oldie but goodie. It would be nice if somebody could find this for the new guys.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.x...=0&w=204&h=164

BillyMac Thu Jan 07, 2021 01:27pm

Exponentially More Consequential ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1040819)
And as much as we try and say "we should officiate the same way the entire game," the reality is that an incorrect call at the end of the game is exponentially more consequential than one in the first quarter...

... because the offended team doesn't have the time to make up and overcome the blown call.

LRZ Thu Jan 07, 2021 04:55pm

I'll continue to play devil's advocate.

Let's assume that T is a typical "career first-year official." More likely than not, he would probably respond to the L's "thumbs up" by loudly insisting, "I got a foul."

What is Plan B if an argument between the two officials ensues?

Rich, do you ever wish that video would incinerate? Did your partner* suffer any consequences?

*Well, more accurately, not your "partner," but the "other guy."

BillyMac Thu Jan 07, 2021 05:07pm

I Never Miss A Chance At Getting A Gary Larson The Far Side ...
 
... comic on the Forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1040824)
What is Plan B if an argument between the two officials ensues?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/23/b0...4944f778ce.jpg

SC Official Thu Jan 07, 2021 05:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1040824)
I'll continue to play devil's advocate.

Let's assume that T is a typical "career first-year official." More likely than not, he would probably respond to the L's "thumbs up" by loudly insisting, "I got a foul."

"Are you sure you want to dig your own grave?"

Loud enough for the offended coach to hear. I want him to know I'm on his side for when he inevitably calls the assigner.

I admit I'm probably don't have the best perspective to answer this question. All the career first-year officials in my HS association are doing subvarsity exclusively - and I would turn back the game before working with any of them. And in college games, you simply would not ever have a situation like this.

BillyMac Thu Jan 07, 2021 05:49pm

Bad Case of Loving You, Doctor, Doctor (Robert Palmer, 1978) ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1040826)
And in college games, you simply would not ever have a situation like this.

Don't know much about college officiating, it's probably not relevant, I'm just trying to be funny.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.d...=0&w=300&h=300

BillyMac Thu Jan 07, 2021 05:53pm

There's No I In Team ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1040826)
"Are you sure you want to dig your own grave?" Loud enough for the offended coach to hear. I want him to know I'm on his side for when he inevitably calls the assigner.

Not a good look for all concerned (officials, coaches, players, fans, assigner, local association).

We should try to keep the bickering in the locker room (if there absolutely must be bickering).

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.F...=0&w=300&h=300

Note: My local association did once have an actual fist fight break out at our end of the year banquet. Combatants had to be physically restrained. And yes, there was an open bar for the entire night.


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