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-   -   Indiana - Florida St. Why not a team control foul? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105204-indiana-florida-st-why-not-team-control-foul.html)

Jay R Wed Dec 09, 2020 09:06pm

Indiana - Florida St. Why not a team control foul?
 
At 8:41 of 2nd half, Fl St lobs a pass to a teammate but that offensive player fouls the defender while the pass is in the air. Indiana goes down the other end to shoot 1 and 1. Am I missing something? Isn’t that a team control foul?

crosscountry55 Wed Dec 09, 2020 09:30pm

In HS it still is. In NCAAM, I believe that rule was changed 2-3 years ago. Loose ball fouls like that now permit bonus FTs. I’m not sure about non-loose ball fouls such as illegal screens.

There was one particular D1 postseason that had a bunch of delays and reviews (and annoyed coaches) for loose ball TC fouls. Sure enough, that same offseason, the rule changed. The visibility of March Madness has an outsized influence on the Good Idea Fairy.


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Nevadaref Wed Dec 09, 2020 09:38pm

Why was the time-out request not granted to Indiana with 4 seconds left in regulation? The player had one foot on the court.

SC Official Wed Dec 09, 2020 09:45pm

What was the call at 1:14 in OT?

Raymond Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1040501)
In HS it still is. In NCAAM, I believe that rule was changed 2-3 years ago. Loose ball fouls like that now permit bonus FTs. I’m not sure about non-loose ball fouls such as illegal screens.

There was one particular D1 postseason that had a bunch of delays and reviews (and annoyed coaches) for loose ball TC fouls. Sure enough, that same offseason, the rule changed. The visibility of March Madness has an outsized influence on the Good Idea Fairy.


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If the pass wasn't deflected it should be a TC foul as there is TC during a throw-in.

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Jay R Thu Dec 10, 2020 06:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1040505)
If the pass wasn't deflected it should be a TC foul as there is TC during a throw-in.

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It wasn’t a throw-in, just a normal lob pass into the key. The pass was not deflected. The foul by the offensive player happened while the ball was in the air on the pass.

Raymond Thu Dec 10, 2020 07:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay R (Post 1040506)
It wasn’t a throw-in, just a normal lob pass into the key. The pass was not deflected. The foul by the offensive player happened while the ball was in the air on the pass.

Then that definitely should have been a team control foul.

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crosscountry55 Thu Dec 10, 2020 07:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1040507)
Then that definitely should have been a team control foul.

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I feel that an IAABO “let’s go to the videotape” moment is due.

Rule nuances at various levels notwithstanding, this is one of my pet peeves: rushing to shoot bonus free-throws without considering the context of the foul. I’ve been known to stop play and confer with a partner even if there’s a good chance the FTs are merited. I’d rather cause a delay and be sure than to find out later that we awarded unmerited free throws, which often go unnoticed by everyone.


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Raymond Thu Dec 10, 2020 07:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1040510)
I feel that an IAABO “let’s go to the videotape” moment is due.

Rule nuances at various levels notwithstanding, this is one of my pet peeves: rushing to shoot bonus free-throws without considering the context of the foul. I’ve been known to stop play and confer with a partner even if there’s a good chance the FTs are merited. I’d rather cause a delay and be sure than to find out later that we awarded unmerited free throws, which often go unnoticed by everyone.


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If I feel we are about to do something wrong, I have no problem at all going over to a partner and asking him/her the status of the ball when the foul occurred.

It can be done real quickly without bringing a whole bunch of attention to the crew.

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JRutledge Thu Dec 10, 2020 09:49am

Maybe the official ruled that the Indiana player had possession and then the foul? If that is the case, then it would not be a TC foul. But that would be sketchy at best.

I am wondering if this was assumed to be a shot of some kind as well. That is the only reason I can think logically that this was ruled a common foul. But nothing about this looks like a Loose-Ball Foul which would result in free throws.

Peace

JRutledge Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:04am

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Peace

Raymond Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:28am

I wish the original description had included that the defender deflected the ball at about the same time as he was being fouled.

To me the foul occurs before the deflection, so it should have been a team control foul. But the fact that the defense deflected the ball close to the time of the foul provides context as to why they may have gotten it wrong.

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