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FED Exam Strikes Again
This question appeared twice. I guess it's very important we all know what a MF is since it gets called so often.
A situation in which two or more teammates commit personal fouls against the same opponent at approximately the same time is known as: A) A multiple foul. B) A double foul. C) A simultaneous foul. D) An intentional foul. E) A false double foul. The premise of this question is wrong as the act described in the question is BI, not GT. If a goaltending violation is penalized for touching the ball entering the basket from below: A) The basket counts if the violation is by the defense. B) No points are scored, regardless of the violating team. C) The ball is awarded to a team based on the alternating-possession arrow. D) None of the above. Is there anything in the Case Book that defines "legally enters the court" as having both feet on the court? A substitute becomes a player when: A) He/she reports to the scorer. B) He/she has both feet inside the playing court. C) He/she is beckoned onto the court by an official. D) All of the above. I am pretty sure I got this one wrong. It is an out-of-bounds violation if a player: A) Leaves the court to avoid a screen. B) Leaves the court to avoid a foul. C) Leaves the court to avoid teammates. D) All of the above. E) None of the above. |
It was awful. I never collaborate (I don’t believe in doing that) and got a 92%. That’s by far my lowest score in a decade. I attribute it all to lousily worded questions.
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The Part 2 Exam was stupid as well. Glad my main state stays away from this test and has for over 10 years.
Peace |
Poorly Worded Questions ...
Speaking of poorly worded questions.
I got an IAABO "you make the call" video today. The situation was illegal live ball contact on a shooter that may, or may not, have been excessive. The question had only two choices for an answer: intentional foul, or personal foul, as if they're mutually exclusive. An intentional foul can be personal foul. I deemed the contact to not be excessive and answered personal foul. Even if I had ruled an excessive contact intentional foul, that would still be a personal foul, so technically personal foul wouldn't be wrong. |
I really dont get why they try this too cute by half crap, especially when there is lower hanging fruit that can waste half an hour at local rules meetings. It can be fun exercises sometimes on the ride up to a game, in locker room for pregame, or to torture the rookies, or bar after the game.
Just glad that after getting your varsity classification here, we dont have to worry about those tests anymore. Watched our online state rules meeting and in going over the POE this year, the infamous 2012 above the shoulder contact POE was brought back up. Too bad its still not codified and you have to do some digging to find the thing.( on arbiter here if you need a refresher: https://www1.arbitersports.com/Group...%20Outline.pdf) |
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That, and there is always a plethora of dumb questions about multiple fouls and the diameter of the rim that no one cares about. |
Contact Above The Shoulders ...
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing |
If FED wants it enforced that way they need to put it in the rules and not require us to rely on 8-year-old interps. Simple as that.
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Games People Play, Joe South, 1968 ...
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Who is going to enforce this rule? The answer, someone who wants their officiating career to end that day (as evidenced by last years brown storm in Alaska over this rule). There are only two possible results from this rule being enforced. The official who makes the call will be black listed because of the appearance having them on deck will portray, or someone will try filing some sort of complaint against said official who will have to defend his/her name in the court of public opinion, if not the court of law. NFHS can make a rule that a dunk is worth 20 points and it would not be as stupid as the swimming and diving suit rule. That rule is the king, queen and emperor of stupid rules. The fact they didn't get rid of the rule after the storm from last year says all we need to know about the NFHS. |
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I agree with you on #3. A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court, or if (s)he entered the court illegally, when the ball becomes live. However, that answer is nowhere to be seen. In addition, as BillyMac mentions, the question where the answer choices include intentional foul and personal foul as mutually exclusive makes no sense, because an intentional foul can be a personal foul if committed while the ball is live, or a technical foul if committed while the ball is dead. NFHS should get their act together and hire an editor who knows both the English language and basketball. I'm sick and tired of seeing the same stupid and poorly-written questions showing up over and over again. |
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Goaltending ...
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(Or a player touches the ball outside the cylinder during a free-throw attempt.) Situation: Team A trails Team B 67 to 66 with 0.4 seconds left in the fourth period. A1 makes a throwin pass. Ball is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, has an excellent chance of entering the basket, and the ball is swatted to the floor by B1, followed by time expiring and the horn sounding in front of Team A's home crowd of 1,500 vociferous fans. Whatcha got? |
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Ok, BI not GT. Thanks for clarifying.
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(edited to clarify) |
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Peace |
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You just awarded the win to the wrong team! |
Seriously, give ilyazhito a break. He probably either overlooked the "outside the cylinder" or inadvertently read it as "inside."
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Basket Interference ...
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I'm not any better than the NFHS or IAABO at writing good unambiguous questions. 4-6-3: Basket interference occurs when a player: Touches the ball outside the cylinder while reaching through the basket from below. |
The Lights Went Out In Massachusetts (The Bee Gees, 1967) ...
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ODog: Care to explain for the newer Forum members who are not from Massachusetts who may fail to see any humor in this? https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.b...=0&w=257&h=174 |
The Mouse Ran Up The Clock ...
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5-9-4: If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock must be started when the ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower. |
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And, if this had been an AP throw-in, would the arrow switch? |
Illegal Touch ...
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4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non-alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5) |
Fun With Jump Balls ...
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If the timer started clock, do we reset to 8:00 (or 4:00)? |
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The point is that the touching itself is not illegal in these situations, rather it is that the touching infringes some other rule of the game. There are only two ways of illegally contacting the ball which would result in the clock not starting and the AP arrow not being switched—a kick or strike with a fist. For any other touching, the clock should start and then be quickly stopped upon the sounding of the official’s whistle which recognizes the violation (OOB, BI, illegal tap during a jump, etc.). |
Re-Starting The Clock ...
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5-9: Re-Starting The Clock ART. 1 After time has been out, the clock must be started when the official signals the clock to start. If the official neglects to signal, the timer is authorized to start the clock as per rule, unless an official specifically signals continued time-out. ART. 2 If play is started or resumed by a jump ball, the clock must be started when the tossed ball is legally touched. ART. 3 If a free throw is not successful and the ball is to remain live, the clock must be started when the ball touches or is touched by a player on the court. ART. 4 If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock must be started when the ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower. |
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If the ball was illegally touched by B, causing basket interference, the game clock should not have started. B would receive the ball with a throw-in from the endline with time remaining due to the awarded points. If B legally swatted the ball while it was outside the cylinder, game over, B wins.
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I believe that the NCAA rule is that a minimum of 0.3 seconds must come off the clock. |
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Citations ???
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If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock must be started when the ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower. It is illegal for a player to touch the ball, ring, or net while the ball is on the ring or within the basket. It is illegal for a player to touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. It is illegal for a player to touch the ball outside the cylinder while reaching through the basket from below. These three examples of basket interference all involve illegal touches. In a throwin situation, clock should not have started, and it should be reset if it was erroneously started. Nevadaref: Any rulebook, casebook, or annual interpretation citations to further your cause? |
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I don’t hate the interp. What I do hate is when it is misused or misunderstood. For example, I know too many officials who falsely use it as a reason to put 0.3 back on the clock when a shooting foul occurs right at the expiration of time for a period. As if they have a monitor in their head! Definite information is one thing; if you have a chance to look up and see ticks come after the whistle, that’s legit. But to arbitrarily put 0.3 on “just because” is wrong. You’d think there was something morally repulsive about having the free throws attempted with the lane spaces empty. I get it: in the games we see on TV, the monitor can tell us the correct time, or prove that the foul occurred on the airborne shooter after an in-time release. We don’t have that luxury in high school. So without definite information, the time very well could expire on a bang-bang play. And there are rules and cases that tell us exactly how to handle that situation, none of which call for 0.3 to be put back on the clock. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Timing ...
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9.11.2 SITUATION C: Since it is a violation for thrower A1 to throw the ball directly into the basket from out of bounds, what happens if B1 touches the throw-in pass while the ball is in the cylinder above A’s basket? RULING: B1 is charged with basket interference and a two-point goal is scored. Team B is awarded the ball for a throw-in anywhere along the end lines as after a scored goal except the official shall place the ball at the disposal of a player of Team B for a throw-in from any point outside the end line. (4-6) 1996 NFHS Interpretations SITUATION #16: Since it is a violation for thrower Al to throw the ball directly into the basket from out-of-bounds, what happens, if Bi touches the throw in pass while the ball is in the cylinder above A’s basket? RULING: Bl is charged with basket interference and a 2-point goal is scored. Team B is awarded the ball for a throw-in anywhere along the end line as after a scored goal except the official shall place the ball at, the disposal of a player of Team B, for a throw-in from any point outside the end line. (9-2-7; 9414) |
Allowance For The Touching ...
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SITUATION 11: Team B scores a goal to take the lead by one point. A1 immediately requests and is granted a timeout with three seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. Following the time-out, Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. A1 passes the ball to A2, who is also outside the boundary; A2 passes the ball to A1 who is inbounds and running the length of the court. The timer mistakenly starts the clock when A2 touches A1’s pass while standing outside the boundary. An official notices the clock starting on A2’s touch (a), before A2 releases the throw-in pass to A1, (b), while A2’s throw-in pass is in flight to A1, or (c), as soon as A1 catches the throw-in pass. RULING: This is an obvious timing mistake and may be corrected. In (a) and (b), the official shall blow the whistle, stop play and direct the timer to put three seconds on the game clock. Since the throw-in had not ended, play is resumed with a Team A throw-in from anywhere along the end line. In (c), the official may put the correct time on the clock, but must make some allowance for the touching by A1 – likely 10ths of a second, if displayed. The ball is put in play nearest to where it was located when the stoppage occurred to correct the timing mistake. A “do over” is not permitted in (c), since the throw-in had ended. (4-36; 5-10-1) |
More Illegal Touches ...
If play is started or resumed by a jump ball, the clock must be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.
It is illegal for a jumper to touch the ball on the way up. It is illegal for a jumper to catch (as the first touch) the ball. Clock should not have started, and it should be reset if it was erroneously started. |
Clock Erroneously Started ...
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Clock should not have started, and it should be reset if it was erroneously started. |
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Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
I’m with Billy. The ball must be touched legally for the clock to start and the throw-in to end. Touching the ball within the cylinder is not a legal touch. If time runs off the clock in my game we are correcting it.
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Even if you could argue the touch was legal, the violation is simultaneous to it. That means no time elapses. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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It is a stupid philosophy that I’m not necessarily a fan of, but when in Rome... |
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99 percent of timers are not watching for a chop - they are watching the ball to see when it's touched, whether legally or not. In this situation more than likely you are going to have some time erroneously run off and you will need to fix the clock.
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I'm Mr. Meeseeks! Look At Me!...
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https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.k...=0&w=288&h=163 |
If it were true that you must take time off for an illegally touching the call, coaches would be having their players try to illegally touch the throwins at the end of the game if they have the lead.
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Reset The Clock ...
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100% ok with doing it that way in your college game. Just please, if we’re working a high school game, don’t bring that college bravado with you and cause a scene at the end of a period. I’ve had partners willing to go to blows on the court over this. They were all college guys who were certain they were correct when they were indeed not correct. Usually the best thing to do for the game is to capitulate and talk it over later. But I hate every time that happens. I guess I need to start pregaming this. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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If there is an AP throw-in by Team A from the front court sideline with 8.4 seconds remaining in the game and the first touch of the passed ball occurs when B1 bats the ball out of the imaginary cylinder above the basket, would the AP-arrow switch? The answer is yes. We have case book plays instructing us to switch the arrow when the first touch of a throw-in pass is by a player who has one foot touching out of bounds. This is the same thing. The player is contacting the ball while simultaneously committing a violation. Again to be clear, the only illegal touches which do not start the clock or switch the arrow are a kick or punch of the ball. All other touchings of the ball are legal touches. The illegal act is the commission of some violation separate from the manner in which the ball is touched. |
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I agree with your compelling argument that the BI is a legal touch in its own right, but you have not convinced me that a legal touch requires the consumption of playing time when it coincides with a violation. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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I was speaking in general terms, not at you. Apologies if it came across that way. Ahh, the pitfalls of expressionless text! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
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We already had this discussion with Nevada a few years ago and his was the only dissenting opinion in a courtroom with 50 judges. He’s trying to sell it to us again but he forgets that the clientele in this forum is the same now as it was then! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
I guess somebody here thinks one of the jumpers can grab a jump ball and the clock should start since the ball wasn't kicked or punched.
Would you trust that person to tell you when an AP arrow should or shouldn't be switched subsequent certain throw-ins? Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
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I understand that I’m in the minority on this and that most people wouldn’t think twice about it being done either way as it is a small amount of time which isn’t going to impact the game, but that doesn’t make me incorrect, just overly precise. |
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Generally the R is the most experienced or knowledgeable member of a crew and has been designated the R to display that through quality judgment in necessary situations. To have someone else step in and make those decisions probably isn’t best for the game or the postgame reports/complaints that may arise. So I don’t see the problem with letting the designated person, the Referee, handle these matters. I do that when I’m am umpire. I will give the R info and he can apply it as he desires. When I’m the R, I listen to input from the U(s) and make the best decision that I can. Personally, I wouldn’t want an Umpire correcting fouls or some other disputed item in the scorebook when I’m the R. That can only cause trouble for me. |
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SITUATION 3: During an alternating-possession throw-in for Team A, thrower A1 passes the ball directly on the court where it contacts (a) A2 or (b) B2, while he/she is standing on a boundary line. RULING: Out-of-bounds violation on (a) A2; (b) B2. The player was touched by the ball while out of bounds, thereby ending the throw-in. The alternating-possession arrow is reversed and pointed toward Team B's basket when the throw-in ends (when A2/B2 is touched by the ball). A throw-in is awarded at a spot nearest the out-of-bounds violation for (a) Team B; (b) Team A. (4-42-5; 6-4-4; 9-2-2; 9-3-2) |
Compare that play ruling to this one.
4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating- possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non- alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5) |
Neither of those cases make any suggestion that time must come off the clock. The kick wouldn't, of course, but the touch while OOB is silent on the point. I think that only allows for the possibility of timing coming off the clock, not that time must come off the clock.
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However, it is a faulty assumption to state the R is usually the most knowledgeable member of the crew. I might give you most experienced as the "usual", but definitely not usually the most knowledgeable. |
Around here, the R is whoever wants it, whoever we can stick in the middle walking out on the court or the new guy.
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King Of Interpretations ...
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Switching (or not switching) arrows; and starting (or not starting) clocks is a lot more interesting and complex than I thought. While I'll stubbornly stick to not starting clocks on any and all illegal touches, I'm now more confused than ever on switching, or not switching, arrows. https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.6...=0&w=300&h=300 |
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That is the line used by almost every R in almost every pregame I've ever been in. Correcting the clock is not a "quality judgment." In the case of the maverick official I referred to earlier, the only thing he was good at was taking the tests and memorizing the books. In South Carolina, that was good enough to be an R on some of the best games in the state. Once we got on the court he had no idea how to apply the intent of the rules, no play-calling skills, no concept of game management, and no ability to communicate with coaches and players. Guess which kind of official 99% of us would rather work with? |
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All Hail To Massachusetts ...
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Massachusetts officials have to observe the post-game handshake lines before leaving the visual confines of the court. I also believe that they lack the power to issue technical fouls during this time period. |
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Both of those are to demonstrate what the Fed considers illegal touching. |
Defensive Team Commits A Violation During The Throw-In ...
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6-4: ART. 4 The direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating-possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends as in 4-42-5. ART. 5 The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an alternating possession throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possession arrow. If the defensive team commits a violation during the throw-in, the possession arrow is not switched. 4-42-5: The throw-in ends when: a. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player inbounds. b. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player out-of-bounds, except as in 7-5-7. c. The throw-in team commits a throw-in violation. A defensive violation switches the arrow here: NFHS Interps 2007-08 SITUATION 3: During an alternating-possession throw-in for Team A, thrower A1 passes the ball directly on the court where it contacts (a) A2 or (b) B2, while he/she is standing on a boundary line. RULING: Out-of-bounds violation on (a) A2; (b) B2. The player was touched by the ball while out of bounds, thereby ending the throw-in. The alternating-possession arrow is reversed and pointed toward Team B's basket when the throw-in ends (when A2/B2 is touched by the ball). A throw-in is awarded at a spot nearest the out-of-bounds violation for (a) Team B; (b) Team A. (4-42-5; 6-4-4; 9-2-2; 9-3-2) A defensive violation doesn't switch the arrow here: 4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating- possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non- alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5) https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.L...=0&w=217&h=190 |
Change The Arrow, Or Not ...
6.4.5 SITUATION A: Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating procedure. A1 commits a violation. RULING: B’s ball for a throw-in because of the violation. In addition, the possession arrow is reversed and is pointed towards B’s basket. Team B will have the next throw-in opportunity under the alternating procedure. Team A has lost its opportunity by virtue of the violation. A violation by Team A during an alternating-possession throw-in is the only way a team loses its turn under the procedure. COMMENT: If a foul by either team occurs before an alternating-possession throw-in ends, the foul is penalized as required and play continues as it normally would, but the possession arrow is not reversed. The same team will still have the arrow for the next alternating-possession throw-in. The arrow is reversed when an alternating-possession throw-in ends. (6-4-4)
6.4.5 SITUATION B: During an alternating-possession throw-in, thrower A1 holds the ball through the end-line plane and B1 grabs it, resulting in a held ball. RULING: Since the throw-in had not ended and no violation occurred, it is still A’s ball for an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-42-5) 4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non-alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5) 9.2.8 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. A1 lobs the throw-in pass toward A2 who is breaking to the basket. The throw-in pass is too high and lodges between the ring and backboard. RULING: Violation by A1 for lodging the untouched throw-in pass. Team B’s ball at the throw-in spot. Since A1 violated during an alternating-possession throw-in, Team A has lost the arrow. Team B will have the arrow for the next alternating-possession throw-in. (6-4-5) 2007-08 SITUATION 3: During an alternating-possession throw-in for Team A, thrower A1 passes the ball directly on the court where it contacts (a) A2 or (b) B2, while he/she is standing on a boundary line. RULING: Out-of-bounds violation on (a) A2; (b) B2. The player was touched by the ball while out of bounds, thereby ending the throw-in. The alternating-possession arrow is reversed and pointed toward Team B's basket when the throw-in ends (when A2/B2 is touched by the ball). A throw-in is awarded at a spot nearest the out-of-bounds violation for (a) Team B; (b) Team A. (4-42-5; 6-4-4; 9-2-2; 9-3-2) 2009-10 SITUATION 3: During an alternating-possession throw-in by Team A, B1 breaks the plane of the boundary line. The official stops play. RULING: Team B is issued a warning for breaking the throw-in plane. Since the original alternating-possession throw-in had not ended, the ball is again awarded to Team A and remains an alternating-possession throw-in. Any type of further delay by Team B results in a team technical foul. (4-42-5; 4-47-1; 6-4-4; 7-6-4; 10-1-5c) 2016-17 SITUATION 11: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. After A1 releases the ball, B1 commits a kicking violation. RULING: A1’s throw-in has ended because of B1’s kicking violation. A new throw-in is awarded to Team A at the spot out-of-bounds nearest to where the kicking violation occurred. NOTE: Because the defensive team committed a violation during the alternating-possession throwin, the alternating-possession arrow is not switched. |
Part 2
Most of these questions are asked on previous exams, every other year. Keep a bank of them on a spreadsheet.:)
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