Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Will Love This ...

[ilyazhito]

I don't tell anyone to hold their spots. I just bounce the ball, blow the whistle, and point in each direction to indicate where each team is going. If I see non-jumpers encroaching onto the circle, I remind them to stay off the circle. Otherwise, I just toss the ball after a random interval of time, and off we go.

If the rules say the jumper can't be substituted for except for a few enumerated exceptions, and none of those exceptions happen, he can't be substituted for, period. If a free thrower can't be replaced, and jumpers and free throwers are treated equivalently by the rules, at least when it comes to substitution, it then stands to reason that the jumper can't be changed unless there is a new jump ball situation, something prevents him from participating (injury, illness, or disqualifications), or the jump ball situation ends some other way (e.g. technical foul).

[LRZ]

You are conflating "substituting" and "replacing" and then adding in "changing." They are not interchangeable. Also see post #21 on why 3-3-2 does not apply to a jumper switch with a player already in the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by LRZ

You are conflating "substituting" and "replacing" and then adding in "changing." They are not interchangeable. Also see post #21 on why 3-3-2 does not apply to a jumper switch with a player already in the game.

Originally Posted by LRZ

(1) A2 is not an "entering substitute," so 3-3-2 does not apply. Allow the switch or replacement on a non-jumping player for the designated jumper; this is not a substitution for two reasons: A2 is not a substitute, nor is she entering (she was already in the game).

3-3-2: The entering substitute shall not replace a designated jumper or a free thrower except as in 8-2 and 3. If the substitute enters to replace a player who must jump or attempt a free throw, he/she shall withdraw until the next opportunity to substitute.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1) Situation: Official tosses the ball to begin the game. Jumpers A1 and B1 are unable to touch the tossed ball and the ball hits the floor. The ball became live with the toss, the game officially starts, but the clock didn't start. Team A coach requests that player A2 jump in the re-tossed jump ball. A1 is not injured nor is A1 bleeding.

In Situation 1, by usual convention, A1, A2, A3, A4, and A5 are all starters (lets stay away from overtime, it adds a new layer of complexity) and are already the game. In Situation 1, no substitutes are involved.

Sorry if this confused anybody.

Note: Situation 2 involved a substitute, identified, by usual convention as A6.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2) Similar situation to begin the game, but before the re-tossed jump ball, Team A coach wants to substitute A6 for jumper A1. A6 is waiting on the X in front of the table and is ready to be the new jumper. A1 is not injured nor is A1 bleeding.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yada yada yada.

Yada yada yada. Isn't this how some (but not all) otherwise very good officials view the jump ball rules? Only memorizing and calling the most egregious violations (ball touched on the way up, ball touched three times by jumper, ball caught by jumper), especially in a two person game, often ignoring (or not being able to fully observe) all eight nonjumpers?

I'm considered to be pretty good with rules (colleagues often come to me with rule questions and interpretations and I've served on various training committees), but I had to double check this situation (below) before I posted it. Ilyazhito's post seemed too simple, I sensed that he was missing something, but I still had to look it up it the rulebook.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

If I see non-jumpers encroaching onto the circle, I remind them to stay off the circle ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... until the ball is tossed after which they can move onto the circle into an unoccupied space, even if it's before the tossed ball is touched by the jumper.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No more jump balls. The jump ball is as outdated as the set shot, short shorts, and chicken wire cages around the perimeter of the court. For generations of players and fans they are a forgettable anachronistic formality. Coaches bemoan inconsistency in officials tossing the ball, and unevenly governed rules about the movement of players during the jump ball, and some officials are weary of policing these microbursts of mayhem. Start the game by giving the ball to the visiting team and use the alternating possession arrow after that, including the overtime periods.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

If I see non-jumpers encroaching onto the circle, I remind them to stay off the circle ...

... until the ball is tossed after which they can move onto the circle into an unoccupied space, even if it's before the tossed ball is touched by the jumper. Yada yada yada.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Coaches bemoan inconsistency in officials tossing the ball, and unevenly governed rules about the movement of players during the jump ball, and some officials are weary of policing these microbursts of mayhem.