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-   -   Assigning Fee (Officials or Schools)? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105113-assigning-fee-officials-schools.html)

Valley Man Sun Aug 02, 2020 06:56pm

Assigning Fee (Officials or Schools)?
 
Had an interesting question posed this week and wanted to get some feedback

1. What is the "assigning fee" for the games you work?
Our association is 6% at the end.

2. Do the officials or the schools pay this "fee"?
Our association, the 6% comes out of the final official's check.

So why do the officials pay the assigning fee and not the schools pay that fee?

LRZ Sun Aug 02, 2020 07:05pm

For both scholastic and rec basketball, we have no assigner fee, and assigners are paid by the leagues. Same for scholastic soccer; I haven't refereed club soccer for decades, so I have no idea how that works. One major baseball assigner gets a fee from his leagues and also charges umpires $50 (as a result of this double-dipping, I no longer work for him).

JRutledge Sun Aug 02, 2020 07:53pm

In Illinois, we do not get assigned by any association. The assignors that we work for are conference assignors which is a fee they pay them, not directly associated with game fees. I cannot speak for what others do, I just know it never comes up. And every conference gives a pays the assignor fees differently.

Peace

crosscountry55 Sun Aug 02, 2020 08:15pm

We’ve had this discussion before from time to time. The setup is entirely a matter of local custom and preference (mostly custom). I’ve seen it done three ways:

1. Percentage per game fee as the OP suggests. 6% is common. Where I work right now it’s 10%, but I can’t complain too much because our state and association fees are very reasonable.

2. Flat rate “buy in” at the beginning of the season. Usually equivalent to one varsity game fee or something like that.

3. Schools and/or conferences pay the assignors explicitly. Officials aren’t burdened directly.


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Camron Rust Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1039233)
We’ve had this discussion before from time to time. The setup is entirely a matter of local custom and preference (mostly custom). I’ve seen it done three ways:

1. Percentage per game fee as the OP suggests. 6% is common. Where I work right now it’s 10%, but I can’t complain too much because our state and association fees are very reasonable.

2. Flat rate “buy in” at the beginning of the season. Usually equivalent to one varsity game fee or something like that.

3. Schools and/or conferences pay the assignors explicitly. Officials aren’t burdened directly.


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Or a combination of all of the above. Even still you have to consider game fees, travel fees, dues, and other factors all in combination. Then, you have to consider what the responsibilities of the assignor are. What may look high to some, might actually be lower than it appears once all the factors are considered.

bob jenkins Mon Aug 03, 2020 07:26am

I would add that the math (if not the psychology, and the labor law implications) comes out the same:

1) School pays referee $70 and assigner $5
2) School pays referee $75 and referee pays assigner $5
3) School pays association $75. Association pays referee $70 and assigner $5.

Raymond Mon Aug 03, 2020 07:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1039237)
I would add that the math (if not the psychology, and the labor law implications) comes out the same:

1) School pays referee $70 and assigner $5
2) School pays referee $75 and referee pays assigner $5
3) School pays association $75. Association pays referee $70 and assigner $5.

Also has tax implications. We (officials) forfeit a 10% assigning fee/game in my HS association--8% to commissioner, 1% to secretary, 1% to either treasure or legal fund, I forget which. However, when we get our 1099, the entire game fees are included as our income. IMO, we should only be showing 90% of our game fees as income, and the assigning fee should show up as income for the respective EB members who are actually receiving that money.

I, of course, itemize the assigning fees in my expenses, but not everyone pays attention to such details when filing taxes.

Valley Man Mon Aug 03, 2020 08:22am

Raymond great catch on your part!

My argument to the question posed is much the same.

If you have the schools pay the fee, they will lower the game fee to cover it.
If you pay the assignors out of the higher game fee, you come out about the same.

SC Official Mon Aug 03, 2020 09:20am

Every assigner, college and high school, I've ever received games from collects fees from both officials and the schools.

If the schools don't want to pay for an assigner then they can hire their own officials.

Camron Rust Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1039238)
Also has tax implications. We (officials) forfeit a 10% assigning fee/game in my HS association--8% to commissioner, 1% to secretary, 1% to either treasure or legal fund, I forget which. However, when we get our 1099, the entire game fees are included as our income. IMO, we should only be showing 90% of our game fees as income, and the assigning fee should show up as income for the respective EB members who are actually receiving that money.

I, of course, itemize the assigning fees in my expenses, but not everyone pays attention to such details when filing taxes.

Tax law says otherwise. The IRS wants to know the gross income and then wants to see your expenses as a reduction from that total. The association fees taken out of the game fees is an expense, not a reduction of gross income.

It comes out the same in the end, but the IRS wants the details.

Camron Rust Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1039237)
I would add that the math (if not the psychology, and the labor law implications) comes out the same:

1) School pays referee $70 and assigner $5
2) School pays referee $75 and referee pays assigner $5
3) School pays association $75. Association pays referee $70 and assigner $5.

It may come out the same, but the variations are not always equal comparing different areas. I know assignors make a widely different amount of money depending on the area.

bob jenkins Mon Aug 03, 2020 01:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1039248)
It may come out the same, but the variations are not always equal comparing different areas. I know assignors make a widely different amount of money depending on the area.


Agreed. I was not trying to make any comparison across geographies.

BillyMac Mon Aug 03, 2020 02:30pm

Assignment Fees ...
 
For my little corner of Connecticut, for all public high schools, all Catholic high schools, many middle schools, and all private prep schools: schools, conferences, and the state do not pay assignment commissioners, they just pay game fees to officials who work their games.

My local board "assignment fee" is 7% of my total earnings (games and scrimmages). On top of this, I also pay annual dues of approximately $100.00.

Note that the 7% "assignment fee" doesn't go to our assignment commissioner, it goes into my local board's general fund. The general fund then pays our assignment commissioner. He's contracted to be paid $28,800.00 for 2020-21, assigning approximately 320 officials to about seventy high schools (boys, girls, varsity, junior varsity, freshman), and many middle schools.

Connecticut 2020-21 game fees (two person games):
Varsity Fee: $100.07
Sub Varsity Fee: $64.93 (junior varsity, freshman, middle school)
Scrimmage Fee: $150 (3 officials $50 each, 2 officials $75 each)

Valley Man Mon Aug 03, 2020 02:40pm

Interesting that the scrimmage fee includes an option for 3 man, but Connecticut uses 2 man!

BillyMac Mon Aug 03, 2020 02:46pm

Dewey, Cheatem & Howe ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1039238)
I, of course, itemize the assigning fees in my expenses, but not everyone pays attention to such details when filing taxes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1039247)
The IRS wants to know the gross income and then wants to see your expenses as a reduction from that total. The association fees taken out of the game fees is an expense, not a reduction of gross income. It comes out the same in the end, but the IRS wants the details.

Every year my accountant uses information that I provide him to complete Form 1040 Schedule C : Profit or Loss From Business. He asks that I provide him with total officiating income, total officiating expenses including dues, fees, uniform, shoes, and equipment, and my total round trip officiating mileage. Not sure what he does with the information provided, he's the accounting expert.

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.C...=0&w=241&h=158

BillyMac Mon Aug 03, 2020 02:52pm

Scrimmages ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Valley Man (Post 1039254)
Interesting that the scrimmage fee includes an option for 3 man, but Connecticut uses 2 man!

The $150.00 scrimmage fee is actually for two hours, or six periods, whichever comes first. When three officials are assigned we rotate in and out each period, with only two officials working each period for a total of four periods for each individual official by the end of the scrimmage.

JRutledge Mon Aug 03, 2020 03:35pm

How would you know what someone pays the assignor unless they tell you? I know assignors that are paid a flat fee per school. I know assignors that are paid per game. How would we know what that break down and why would we report it if we have no idea what that is? All I know is my check my be $75, I have no idea what other fees are involved unless on the contract. This is almost never discussed openly here.

Peace

BillyMac Mon Aug 03, 2020 04:16pm

John Lewis, One Of The Big Six Leaders ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1039260)
Let us get into "Good Trouble."

Just noticed this and remembered that your Mom was active in the civil rights movement. Great way to honor and remember.

Raymond Mon Aug 03, 2020 04:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1039260)
How would you know what someone pays the assignor unless they tell you? I know assignors that are paid a flat fee per school. I know assignors that are paid per game. How would we know what that break down and why would we report it if we have no idea what that is? All I know is my check my be $75, I have no idea what other fees are involved unless on the contract. This is almost never discussed openly here.



Peace

I started noticing it because my 1099 did not match my spreadsheet when it came to income from my High School association.

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JRutledge Mon Aug 03, 2020 04:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1039269)
I started noticing it because my 1099 did not match my spreadsheet when it came to income from my High School association.

Only speaking for me. We do not get that information. Even the games on Blue Zebra or Arbiter, we get no additional information about payment for the assignor. I am sure there are other places that might not be the case.

Peace

Raymond Mon Aug 03, 2020 04:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1039275)
Only speaking for me. We do not get that information. Even the games on Blue Zebra or Arbiter, we get no additional information about payment for the assignor. I am sure there are other places that might not be the case.



Peace

We've always known and it's always been advertised that the commissioner gets a percentage of all our games, but I was surprised when I saw my 1099 reflected income I never saw.

I don't agree with the characterization that it's my income and then I'm paying the commissioner. It's in the contract that the schools pay our association a certain dollar figure for officials per game. The percentage that goes to the commissioner is money officials never see.



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BillyMac Mon Aug 03, 2020 04:40pm

1099's ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1039269)
I started noticing it because my 1099 did not match my spreadsheet when it came to income from my High School association.

In my case the two never match because only about half the schools we cover use Arbiter, and only Arbiter sends most of us 1099's. We have so many officials and our assigner tries to spread it out so that the same officials don't often work at the same site more than once or twice a season that individual schools (or school systems) don't often meet minimum payments (I believe that it may be $600.00) to generate mandatory 1099's for almost all of us.

I have to explain this to my accountant every year.

JRutledge Mon Aug 03, 2020 04:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1039276)
We've always known and it's always been advertised that the commissioner gets a percentage of all our games, but I was surprised when I saw my 1099 reflected income I never saw.

I don't agree with the characterization that it's my income and then I'm paying the commissioner. It's in the contract that the schools pay our association a certain dollar figure for officials per game. The percentage that goes to the commissioner is money officials never see.

I do get that. But we are not in that kind of system. No commissioner assigns a game from any association (we have no such position). We are assigned games by conference or tournament director and if we get a 1099, it might be only the games we get paid online, which in most games are not paid that way yet. All I am saying they do not disclose that information to us. So if I get paid $75 from said school, then that is all I can claim at this point. Not saying that is right, just saying that it is what it is.

Peace

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:42am

OhioHSAA Rules and Regulations prohibit the charging of Officials an assigners fee.

MTD, Sr.

BillyMac Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:50am

No Such Thing As A Free Lunch ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1039285)
OhioHSAA Rules and Regulations prohibit the charging of Officials an assigners fee.

Since we all know that assigners wouldn't assign for free, Ohio assigners must be paid by the schools, school systems (towns), conferences (leagues), or the state.

I've known a few recreation level (youth and men), travel, and middle school assigners who have assigned for free, doing it to assign themselves the "choicest" games, or as a supporter of the league or school.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cart...sc1632_low.jpg

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039286)
Since we all know that assigners wouldn't assign for free, Ohio assigners must be paid by the schools, school systems (towns), conferences (leagues), or the state.

I've known a few recreation level, travel, or middle school assigners who have assigned for free, doing it to assign themselves the "choicest" games, or as a supporter of the league or school.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cart...sc1632_low.jpg


Bill:

You are corrrect. Assigners are "paid by the schools, school systems (towns), conferences (leagues)".

The OhioHSAA sanctioned assigner who assigns H.S. baseball and softball in the Toledo area also assigns most of the baseball and softball travel tournaments. The OhioHSAA requires him to use a completely separate Arbiter account for him to assign the baseball and softball travel tournaments and he charges the teams and tournaments not the umpires to pay to maintain his second Arbiter account.

MTD, Sr.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039286)
Since we all know that assigners wouldn't assign for free, Ohio assigners must be paid by the schools, school systems (towns), conferences (leagues), or the state.

I've known a few recreation level, travel, or middle school assigners who have assigned for free, doing it to assign themselves the "choicest" games, or as a supporter of the league or school.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cart...sc1632_low.jpg


Billy:

Your cartoon reminds me of an advertisement that has been on Facebook for the last two weeks by a company in Montana that sells leather goods. It wants to get rid of its entire inventory leather pocket books, laptop cases, shoulder bags, and back packs. These items all normally sell starting at $150 and as much at $350, and the company is giving them way free with the "buyer" only paying shipping and handling: And S&H starts at $85 for the cheapest item with the cost going well over $120 for the more pricey item.

The Mafia could take lessons from this company, LOL!

MTD, Sr.

chapmaja Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1039241)
Every assigner, college and high school, I've ever received games from collects fees from both officials and the schools.

If the schools don't want to pay for an assigner then they can hire their own officials.

Not in Michigan. MHSAA is clear. Assigners can collect fee from the league or from the schools, or they can charge officials and assigning fee, but NOT both. Schools also pay officials. Assigners are prohibited from getting pay for the officials and passing it on to the officials.

Personally, I charge the schools a flat fee for assigning.

JRutledge Wed Aug 05, 2020 09:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1039241)
Every assigner, college and high school, I've ever received games from collects fees from both officials and the schools.

If the schools don't want to pay for an assigner then they can hire their own officials.

The only thing we paid for in Illinois was the Arbiter site which was like $7 to use the site. We never paid for any fee for games, at least not that we can account for.

In Indiana, we pay nothing but dues to the association. The Association takes care of all the assigning and the site usages, which used to be Arbiter but now is Eventlink.

Peace

Valley Man Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:03pm

Thanks Mark!

Curious if you know the amount the assignors charge the schools/school systems or towns/conferences?

SC Official Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chapmaja (Post 1039293)
Not in Michigan. MHSAA is clear. Assigners can collect fee from the league or from the schools, or they can charge officials and assigning fee, but NOT both. Schools also pay officials. Assigners are prohibited from getting pay for the officials and passing it on to the officials.

Personally, I charge the schools a flat fee for assigning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1039294)
The only thing we paid for in Illinois was the Arbiter site which was like $7 to use the site. We never paid for any fee for games, at least not that we can account for.

In Indiana, we pay nothing but dues to the association. The Association takes care of all the assigning and the site usages, which used to be Arbiter but now is Eventlink.

Peace

I should clarify that the only assigning structures I've worked under at the high school level are ones where the "associations" are also the assigners (and in South Carolina all varsity games are assigned by the state office). So I was referring to the fact that a portion of my dues/registration is going to the assigner as compensation. And I know the local associations I have been a member of always charge the schools a booking fee - as they should. If schools don't want to pay to have officials booked, they should book them themselves.

Schools don't self-affiliate with conferences down here so there are no individual league assigners.

I have never written a check directly to a high school assigner as an assigning fee like I have at the college level. At the college level the assigners are most certainly collecting fees from their officials and their league or individual schools (not to mention the camp money).


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