Vid request: UCLA v Arizona - F1

[bucky]

Without about 12:31 to go in the UCLA/Arizona game, a UCLA player runs into an already stretched out arm/hand of an Arizona player. Face to hand contact. Refs review and rule F1. Subsequently, Miller gets tossed.

Interesting play in that it brings up the case of one person simply running into another. Contact is in head/face area. Typically if an arm/hand was extended into the stationary head/face of another player, F1 would be standard ruling. What about the opposite? What about player moving head/face into stationary hand/arm of opponent?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bucky

Without about 12:31 to go in the UCLA/Arizona game, a UCLA player runs into an already stretched out arm/hand of an Arizona player. Face to hand contact. Refs review and rule F1. Subsequently, Miller gets tossed.

Interesting play in that it brings up the case of one person simply running into another. Contact is in head/face area. Typically if an arm/hand was extended into the stationary head/face of another player, F1 would be standard ruling. What about the opposite? What about player moving head/face into stationary hand/arm of opponent?

First, let’s get the facts correct. The call on the court by John Higgins was a team control foul and when the play was reviewed the call stood as a common foul. Three seconds after UCLA inbounded the ball from the backcourt endline and was moving up the court, Miller said something unsporting to Tony Padilla and received his second tech of the game. (He picked up one in the first half after screaming at Higgins.)

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

First, let’s get the facts correct. The call on the court by John Higgins was a team control foul and when the play was reviewed the call stood as a common foul. Three seconds after UCLA inbounded the ball from the backcourt endline and was moving up the court, Miller said something unsporting to Tony Padilla and received his second tech of the game. (He picked up one in the first half after screaming at Higgins.)

Thanks Nevada. I clearly missed that. I thought after the review it was an F1 and I thought that was the reason Miller could not let it go as such and got his 2nd T. Good clarification and I was way off.

[Indianaref]

[Raymond]

Sean Miller is such an a-hole. Still upset that Ed T. Rush allowed himself to get fired behind that unprofessional coach.

[MechanicGuy]

This is a tough one, even on replay. A1 clearly doesn't see B1 and isn't really clearing space or warding him off. But, at the same time, his arm IS in motion so it's not quite as simple as B1 just running into A1's stationary arm/hand.

Curious to see what Tony would think about it after a second look.

Unless someone above me told me this play was an offensive foul, I'd be content with a no call.

And Sean Miller is a shit.

[Raymond]

NCAA Men's Major Officiating Concerns

"Post Play This area of the game continues to be a problem due to illegal actions by both the offense and defense. Dislodging by both the offense and defense must not be permitted. In addition, the warding off by the offensive player with a straight arm when he is attempting to post up is a foul when contact occurs. “Swim” moves by either the offense or defense are also fouls. The key to cleaning up post play is to call the first foul, keeping in mind that the defense is permitted to place a forearm on the back of a post player in the post area as long as equal pressure is being applied to the opponent. "

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[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Extended arms by post players has been emphasized in NCAA men's for a couple years now. The offensive player was not legal.

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Originally Posted by Raymond

NCAA Men's Major Officiating Concerns

"Post Play This area of the game continues to be a problem due to illegal actions by both the offense and defense. Dislodging by both the offense and defense must not be permitted. In addition, the warding off by the offensive player with a straight arm when he is attempting to post up is a foul when contact occurs. “Swim” moves by either the offense or defense are also fouls. The key to cleaning up post play is to call the first foul, keeping in mind that the defense is permitted to place a forearm on the back of a post player in the post area as long as equal pressure is being applied to the opponent. "

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I know this.

But in all of the videos I've seen regarding this POE, none of the plays look like this. Not sure I'd call this warding off since there is no defender there when he puts his arm out. I don't think he's attempting to restrict anyone's movement. Looks more like he's using his hand to feel WHERE the defender is, not to prevent him from doing anything. If this same contact catches the defender in the shoulder, it's nothing.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

I know this.



But in all of the videos I've seen regarding this POE, none of the plays look like this. Not sure I'd call this warding off since there is no defender there when he puts his arm out. I don't think he's attempting to restrict anyone's movement. Looks more like he's using his hand to feel WHERE the defender is, not to prevent him from doing anything. If this same contact catches the defender in the shoulder, it's nothing.

Post players cannot stick their arms out horizontally and cause illegal contact. The play posted is an obvious foul to me and something I've called in the past. I also warn post players when I see them putting elbows and forearms close an opponent's head and neck area.

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