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-   -   FTs shot in wrong order - correctable (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104994-fts-shot-wrong-order-correctable.html)

bucky Wed Feb 19, 2020 08:18pm
FTs shot in wrong order - correctable
 
Sure we have discussed. Can't find it.

A1 is shooting and gets hit by B1. Foul is called and B1 slams ball. One official does not realize that A1 was shooting and administers the technical foul FTs. After the FT's, the officials discuss and decide indeed, A1 was shooting.

FT's were shot in wrong order. Is there a case play some place that indicates this falls under correctable errors? I do not think case play exists but want to confirm with the forum.

SNIPERBBB Wed Feb 19, 2020 09:03pm
Order of free throws isnt a CE.

ilyazhito Wed Feb 19, 2020 09:06pm
This is not a correctable error. Because the merited free throws were awarded to the correct players, they would count. The only correction involved would be clearing the lane for the out-of-order personal foul free throws, and awarding possession to Team A at the division line opposite the table per the technical foul rules.

Camron Rust Thu Feb 20, 2020 03:10am
This was a correctable error....failure to award merited FTs to A1. After shooting the FTs for the T, you discussed it, realizing A1 was not given the merited FTs, and corrected the error by awarding A1 the FTs that were merited but not shot when they should have been.

If you had simply shot them out of order thinking that it was the right way to do it and realized later that the order was wrong, that wouldn't be a correctable error....case 8.6.2B.

So, the wrong order itself isn't a correctable error, but realizing A1 didn't get FTs that should have been given is a correctable error.

BillyMac Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:45am
Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1037730)
If you had simply shot them out of order thinking that it was the right way to do it and realized later that the order was wrong, that wouldn't be a correctable error....case 8.6.2B.
Nice citation Camron Rust.

8.6.2 SITUATION B: B1 fouls A1 just as the first quarter ends and then A1 retaliates and intentionally contacts B1. A1’s foul is a technical foul as it occurred during a dead ball. Team A is in the bonus. The officials by mistake administer the penalty for the technical foul before the free throw(s) by A1. RULING: The penalties should have been administered in the order in which the fouls occurred. However, since all merited free throws were attempted it does not constitute a correctable error situation. The second quarter will begin with an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-19-5c)

WhistlesAndStripes Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:52am
FTs shot in wrong order - correctable
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1037732)
Nice citation Camron Rust.



8.6.2 SITUATION B: B1 fouls A1 just as the first quarter ends and then A1 retaliates and intentionally contacts B1. A1’s foul is a technical foul as it occurred during a dead ball. Team A is in the bonus. The officials by mistake administer the penalty for the technical foul before the free throw(s) by A1. RULING: The penalties should have been administered in the order in which the fouls occurred. However, since all merited free throws were attempted it does not constitute a correctable error situation. The second quarter will begin with an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-19-5c)

In the case play cited, if you shoot the FTs In the correct order(bonus and then technical), do you then administer the throw-in to start the second quarter based on the technical foul, or the AP arrow?

bob jenkins Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhistlesAndStripes (Post 1037733)
In the case play cited, if you shoot the FTs In the correct order(bonus and then technical), do you then administer the throw-in to start the second quarter based on the technical foul, or the AP arrow?
Hint 1: Can part of a penalty carry over from one quarter to the next?

Hint 2; WTF difference does it make (for this question) in what order the FTs were shot?

WhistlesAndStripes Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1037734)
Hint 1: Can part of a penalty carry over from one quarter to the next?

Hint 2; WTF difference does it make (for this question) in what order the FTs were shot?


1. Yes
2. This gives away the answer that you use the arrow.


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MattReferee Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1037728)
this is not a correctable error. Because the merited free throws were awarded to the correct players, they would count. The only correction involved would be clearing the lane for the out-of-order personal foul free throws, and awarding possession to team a at the division line opposite the table per the technical foul rules.
👏🏀👍🏻

BillyMac Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:48am
Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1037734)
Can part of a penalty carry over from one quarter to the next?
5-6: Each quarter or extra period ends when the signal illuminates
or sounds indicating time has expired, as in 1-14.
EXCEPTIONS:
1. If the ball is in flight during a try or tap for field goal, the quarter or
extra period ends when the try or tap ends.
2. If a held ball or violation occurs so near the expiration of time that the
clock is not stopped before time expires, the quarter or extra period ends
with the held ball or violation.
3. If a foul occurs so near the expiration of time that the timer cannot get the
clock stopped before time expires or after time expires, but while the ball
is in flight during a try or tap for field goal, the quarter or extra period ends
when the free throw(s) and all related activity have been completed. No
penalty or part of a penalty carries over from one quarter or extra period to
the next, except when a correctable error, as in 2-10, is rectified.

bob jenkins Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhistlesAndStripes (Post 1037735)
1. Yes
2. This gives away the answer that you use the arrow.


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1. Incorrect

2. Not any more than hint 1.

WhistlesAndStripes Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:11pm
FTs shot in wrong order - correctable
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1037738)
1. Incorrect



2. Not any more than hint 1.


The final sentence of your case play, the “except when” portion indicates that my answer to #1 was actually correct.

Also, a player who is disqualified for a flagrant foul in the first quarter has that part of the penalty carryover to the remaining quarters of the game. Just sayin’...


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BillyMac Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:29pm
Intelligently Applied ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhistlesAndStripes (Post 1037739)
... a player who is disqualified for a flagrant foul in the first quarter has that part of the penalty carryover to the remaining quarters of the game. Just sayin’...
... it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it
may be intelligently applied in each play situation.

bob jenkins Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhistlesAndStripes (Post 1037739)
The final sentence of your case play, the “except when” portion indicates that my answer to #1 was actually correct.

Also, a player who is disqualified for a flagrant foul in the first quarter has that part of the penalty carryover to the remaining quarters of the game. Just sayin’...


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We already indicated that this wasn't a CE (for the throw-in we are discussing).

bucky Thu Feb 20, 2020 08:32pm
Great input and thanks for pointing out the exact case, 8.6.2 Sit A. I searched the case book thoroughly but not in the areas regarding putting the ball in play.

Thanks again. Incorrect order of proper FTs is not CE.


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