What would you do?
 

Working a BJV in front of a coach I have seen on and off for many years. Had AAU and some sub-varsity in front of him.

First quarter he screams across the court wanting some illegal contact where we felt no disadvantage was gained. I run by and let him know we are not doing that today and he quiets down.

At the break at the end of the first quarter he motions me over and my partner comes with me.

He asks me what is wrong. Coach we are not going to have you scream at us when you want foul calls to be made. If you want us to watch for something let us know when we are nearby.

He responds why are you taking this personally?

What I should have done was ask why do you think I am taking this personally.

I just decided to start to back away. He grabs my arm to keep me in this 3 man huddle....

My question is...

Is this nothing and I stare at my arm and say coach let go of me?
Do I take my arm away and give a behavior warning?
Do I move away and give him a technical foul or worse?

Never had a coach grab me like this in 6k games and so he caught me off guard.

Love this forum and wanted to ask for some advice and opinions on what you do.

I believe I said you are not going to talk to us like that and moved away.

Again thanks in advance you guys have helped my career a ton here.

I'm stepping back and calling a technical here.


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Definitely T Worthy
 

I think we've gotten gun-shy when it comes to using this very valuable tool. You did him a favor with the warning, then even more so by explaining why he was behaving poorly during the break (good move by your partner to be there to hear what was going on too - these days it's not about your ability to handle the situation solo but to have witnesses to what was said).

Putting hands on an official is a step too far, though, regardless of the context. You already told him why you gave the warning and tried to back away. He then chose to reach out and put hands on you.

You would call a T also?

Flagrant Technical. Goodbye coach. See you next time.

I was expecting more opinions... where is Billy.

Yes, sorry, should have been clearer.

My initial comment would have been direct and a louder than normal conversational voice, "DO NOT yell at me", then I would have turned and walked away. I've done it before. Also, I've told a coach who was yelling across court at my partner "if you're going yell at us, I'm going to yell at you." If I get a smart-ass comment about "taking it personal(ly)", I'm issuing a bench warning (high school) or telling my partners "this coach has been warned" (college).

Never had anybody grab me or contact me, so that would probably have caught me off-guard. Now that it has come up here, and in a Facebook forum, and an NBA game, I'm T'ing in that situation.

Well, it is still the middle of a work day. ;)

Man, the more I think about this situation the more it burns me up. I hate this f'ing nonsensical concept coaches have that we are taking it personally when we don't let them address us in disrespectful or unprofessional manner.

Once a coach tried to justify his star player (now a Tar Heel) stomping towards me to complain about a call. I turned to the coach and asked "do you let him talk to you that way" and he literally stuttered 'well, no" and then he STFU towards me for the rest of the game.

I started officiating late in life and had been in the military 18 1/2 years when I started wearing the stripes. Past basic training, I never let a superior go unchallenged when they addressed me in a disrespectful manner and I sure as hell never had anybody yell or scream at me. So I sure as f**k am not letting coaches, parents, and student-athletes talk to me any kind of way. It's just not happening, and my remedy is not always a technical foul; it is more often a taste of their own medicine.

Thanks Raymond

Had To Be There ...
 

Had to be there.

Unlike the NBA, contact from a coach is not an automatic "anything" for me personally.

A hard grab, an arm around you, or a touch on the shoulder?

Invasion of personal space by any of the three adults involved?

All officials have different levels of tolerance.

I wouldn't have any criticism for a variety of outcomes: nothing, official warning, technical foul, or flagrant technical foul (ejection).

Don't Give Up Your Day Job ...
 

Too late. I already retired.

Boys middle school game.

It depends on what type of touch it is, so I wouldn't call touching me automatic at all. But, in this case, it sounds like a technical foul from me. He wasn't grabbing your arm while calmly talking to you, he was purposely keeping you from moving way and restarting the game.

Thanks all!

Coach we’re not doing that today 🤷*♂️ Use the tools allotted hit the whistle and report a bench warning to table ..Now he clearly knows YOUR not gonna do that today !!! when he grab you your day is OVER !!! This a direct response to your circumstance !

If a coach grabs or pushes me, that is a flagrant technical foul. He can make his point without putting hands on me.

We probably all have to truly experience what happened to you in order to give a good response. My takeaway is that we should not be within grabbing distance. perhaps that helps ever getting into this type of situation.

Definitely agree with this.

Personal Space ...
 

My thought exactly.

Is it an idiom?
 

re: the grabbing. Warning if not an immediate T (Had to be there situation - grab and latch, grandpa "woah there sonny", hand on arm "hey what about") Can't put hands on officials but context here may make the difference between a warning to avoid it happening again or an immediate T.

re: taking it personally. The problem here is again context. 'Taking it personally' can mean that you are taking something as a personal afront but it is also an idiomatic expression (merriam-webster if you don't believe me) that can mean generally upset or offended by something. He could simply be questioning why it upsets or bothers you , particularly if his behavior has been allowed in other games by other officials.

Regarldess using the if it walks like a duck, talks like . . . theory. T him the duck up.

I once T'd a Coach for putting his arm around my shoulders. To the fans it just looked like he was being a nice guy, but he wouldn't let go when I told him to take his hands off of me...so he got whacked. Of course, he was being a complete a-hole with what he was saying, so he truly deserved it.

I think your possible response of staring at his hand and telling him to let go is what I would do first. The T would come quickly if he didn't let go.

As far as the "taking it personally" comment, my standard response was always "If I come to a parent conference and start screaming at you, you wouldn't take it personally? Really?"

This!

Johnny D:

1) This is definitely a DTF.

2) As to whether or not this is a FTF or not would be a matter of how the Game Official perceived how physical the HC was with him.

3) From reading how Big T described it I would be leaning toward a FTF on the ACS Theory.


Amazingly, in my entire career I have had only three HCs make unwanted physical contact with me. 1) A YBOA Boys' National Championship Tournament; 2) An AAU Boys' Invitational; 3) A NAIA Women's regular season game. Items (1) and (2) were played under NFHS Rules and resulted in Disqualification and Ejection based upon the severity of the contact. Item (3) was played under NCAA Women's Rules and was just a TF based upon the situation under which the contact occurred; there is more to this story but that is for another time.

MTD, Sr.