NBA protest and NBA officiating embarrassment
 

Video request of Houston player James Harden making a dunk, yet the officials missing the fact that it passed through the basket and failing to count the score.

Houston lost by two and may protest the game.

In an NFHS game, would this qualify as a correctable error?
The text language is “Erroneously counting or canceling a score.”

Is failing to count a goal the same as erroneously canceling it? I’m not certain because an official doesn’t actually cancel anything, rather no official made a call at all.

Based on the player's reactions in chasing the ball, it looks like they missed it, too.

I don't think this is an NFHS CE.

How would it be protestable? It was a mistake of judgment (did the ball go in), not a question of misapplication of a rule.

You had to see the replay to know for sure. It looked clearly live like that ball never went through. Player does not react that way, they might have counted the basket.

Peace

The ball definitely went in and the net swung it around. I don't think Harden knew WTH happened, along with most, obviously!

Was it reviewed? Is it reviewable?

I believe it is.

"erroneously counting or canceling a score"

If one of the other officials comes up later (but before the window expires) and says that ball went in, it should be counted. Why would we not?

"Embarrassment"?

Christ, they made a mistake on a 1-in-1000-year play. A mistake any one of us could easily make.

It amazes me how holier-than-thou some officials that haven't sniffed the level of the guys on TV love to act.

Post of the year !!!! You are 100% correct.

Thanks for saying it !!!

What's Wrong With Being Embarrassed ???
 

Hey, I'm embarrassed every time I make a mistake, varsity game on television, or middle school game in front of a hundred fans, big mistakes that everybody sees and impacts the game, and little mistakes that nobody but me even notices.

Even when my partner makes a mistake, I always think, "What could I have done better as a partner to prevent that mistake?".

I'm embarrassed when I post something incorrect on the Forum.

Forty years. Thousands of games. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in game fees. Training. Meetings. Camps. Exams. Conferences. Observations. Advice. Lots of reading. Scrimmages. Introspection.

I always strive to work a perfect game. I never do, but that doesn't keep me from trying and from disappointing myself and being embarrassed every time that I make a mistake.

Of course, I stopped kicking myself about it many, many, years ago, or I wouldn't still be officiating today.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.1...=0&w=300&h=300

Yeah, “embarrassment” may be a bit on the sanctimonious side of the hyperbole meter.

That said, what may need to be looked at is the 30 second review appeal timeline. The officials said that it had passed by the time the Houston coach challenged, but that’s only because the crew took a country minute (understandably) to figure out (incorrectly) what they had just seen. I think the 30 second window should start in cases like this when a final ruling has been made.


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Harden did not realize he made the basket. We never see that and I cannot ever think of a time something like that ever happened.

Peace

The article I read said the coach has to request the review within the first 30 seconds of the next timeout. He apparently spent too long trying to determine if he could request a review and by the time he did, he was beyond the 30 seconds.

It's embarrassing, but not an embarrassment.

But this is!
First qtr with 9:23 remaining
Lakers at Utah Jazz

Lebron commits a ridiculous traveling violation with the Trail official having a clear view of the action.

Someone will post the video, several will agree with me that the NBA officiating is embarrassingly poor, and someone will post how great they are and that people who don’t work at that level can’t criticize. :rolleyes:

It is not an issue of greatness or poorness. The issue is that this is one play in a game that can be missed by a varsity official. How many times does someone come here and post a horrible misapplication of a rule or a play? So forgive me for rolling my eyes a little bit at the hyperbole about the NBA as if they are alone in doing silly stuff. I post videos all the time about plays and situations that are very embarrassing and the NBA is not the level the plays came from. And officials are looking right at those plays and still do not call obvious travels, call blocking calls on players that did nothing wrong or apply a rule that does not exist or comes from another level. This was bad for sure, but let us be real sometimes. They make mistakes too because they are human.

Peace

There is a significant difference which you are failing to note. The officials at the NBA level are professionals. Officiating those contests is their primary job and how they earn a living. That is not the case at the HS level and for the majority of the NCAA officials.

Therefore, I believe that it is fair to expect much more from the people working the NBA games. They shouldn’t be making the same errors as JV high school officials.

LMAO. So because they are professionals it's the end of the world to make a mistake on a once-in-a-lifetime play. A play that most people, including the guy who dunked the ball, missed on initial viewing.

You've made it clear in your posting history that you enjoy playing "gotcha" with officials at higher levels.

Not sure what axe you have to grind but I guess my question is, why aren't you at that level? If the officiating is so poor you should have no problem getting hired to help them clean up their mess.

Ridiculous ...
 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/o6AcGoc1E4w" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

LeBron's explanation:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba...AEe?li=BBnba9I

Shouldn't happen -- but it does, to all of us. We look away form "no action" to see what might be coming up -- is someone coming to set a screen, is there off-ball activity that we can help with, etc. Then, something happens and than fans go "oooh"

Brain Hiccup ...
 

Two or three times in forty years I've had unguarded ball handlers hold the ball and look for an open man to pass to for a such a long, long time that I said to myself, "Wait? Did he already end his dribble or hasn't he started a dribble yet?", and hope that the ball handler knew the answer more accurately than me.

Apparently the official was officiating the defense:)

Protest denied, despite NBA finding that referees mis-applied the coaching challenge rule.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...edium=referral

"While agreeing that the referees misapplied the rules, Commissioner Silver determined that the Rockets had sufficient time to overcome the error during the remainder of the fourth quarter and two subsequent overtime periods and thus the extraordinary remedy of granting a game protest was not warranted."

Yes, an embarrassment!!!!

So the officials missed the fact that a goal was scored by the ball passing through the basket, which many people understand given the odd nature of the action, but what cannot be defended is then kicking the coach’s challenge rule which would have allowed them to fix this mistake. There is no excuse for not knowing the rules at the level that one officiates.

For which they are being disciplined.

You really think this was an issue of not knowing the rule? Seriously? Not knowing the rule? Not the fact that they might not have felt the ball went through the basket at all? The fact that Harden chased the ball like he did not believe the basket was good either?

Again, like said, this is a once in a lifetime situation. Rarely do you ever see a basket not go through the basket-like this, let alone wrap around and come out upwards.

Yes it was a mistake. I will debate that there is no excuse either as many things looked funny that you do not see in games. And the fact an official acts like this is a common occurrence or that this is something that can happen on a regular basis is kind of laughable.

Peace

I think you missed a piece there. The rule knowledge issue isn't about the basket scoring, but about the application of the coach challenge and what could be challenged and when. Unfortunately, the article doesn't explain much about the actual rule and where the mistake was in denying the coach challenge. I'd really like to hear the full story and full reasoning.

Even that is a new rule. Even that piece if not been said one way or the other what was misapplied. There are many rules that come into play that are not well thought out and that is why many did not like the replay challenges in the first place. Officials at all levels make mistakes and this is no different. I just think it is funny how some people act when a mistake is made like they never make mistakes or never made mistakes in their career. I know I have and learned from them and likely did not make those mistakes again.

Peace

You guys are missing the point.
At least MY point.
I can live with all the mistakes.
Didn’t think it went in...
Reviewable or not...
Challenge legit...
Etc...

Then a proper protest was filed and the commissioner stated that the protest was correct.
BUT we are not going to uphold it because the offended had enough time to make up the 2 points.

Yes, embarrassment!!!

That is not what they said. And a protest is not about the rule that is misapplied, but the resolution to the actual protest. A protest was basically asking to overturn the result or play the game over again at the point of the mistake. So if a block/charge call is misapplied with a similar 13 point lead, and that is stated there was a mistake, are we going back to play that game at that point? No, and that is the overall point of what took place here.

Peace

The Plot Thickens ...
 

"... the crew informed the coaching staff that a basket interference violation had been called on Harden."

I fail to understand why the rules do not allow the officials do replay any odd situation. At times, strange things happen and, due to their oddity, we are unsure how to react. For any moment like that, why not allow, at the discretion of the officials, to review something. Everybody in the world was confused when the play happened, including the officials. Why not make it something they can review at their discretion? Problem solved.

I always thought something similar should be in the NFL and other sports. Think of its usefulness in last year's Saint's playoff game.

Agree/disagree?

For one, as much as people say they like replay, they really do not like replay to be applied. So if you say they can look at anything, we will have debates about what they can look at all the time. So you have to have some parameters, just like all levels do. You want officials looking at every foul and taking several minutes to figure out if that foul really happened?

This was such an unusual situation and I would suspect most have never seen a situation like this and probably have never seen it like that in any game they have personally officiated.

And people bring up the Saints game, but there were several aspects of that play that were debatable (this is why you cannot rely on the sports media for officiating situations). The ball might have been tipped and even a possibility of the ball not being in the area at the time of contact (which matters BTW), all likely played a role in the original call. And now they do not overturn any PI and people are mad when they don't and when they have overturned the call which is rare under those new NFL rules.

Peace

Solved? :eek: Are you kidding? So every close call, the coach is going to be barking that the R should go review it? Best way to improve video review is to abolish it. (And while you're at it, get off my lawn . . . )

Things That Old Men Say For Two Hundred Alex ...
 

... and don't make me get out the hose.

Every close call? Huh? I indicated odd plays, plays that are very strange and rarely occur. I understand JRuts point too but again, I am talking about giving the authority of the Referee, perhaps after a discussion with the crew, to review a weird situation. Close calls are common and happen all the time. Harden's play is extremely rare and using the review for such a strange play would have resulted in them getting it correct.

What is that standard going to be? Because weird or unusual will likely have to be defined. And then that might be very broad to where you review all kinds of things. And we might get some reviews that would not be intended by the stated rules.

Bottom line from my point of view, there are too many reviews in sports. I get that we want to get things right, but they are usually taking too long or unncessary.

Peace

Christ. All these holier-than-thou officials shrieking about "accountability" and haven't sniffed the level of accountability these guys are subject to. SMDH.

The crew was punished for misapplying the relevant rules. What the punishment was is not our business. In high school games rules get kicked all the time and it never gets back to the assigner because the coaches don't know the rules more often than not.

Unfortunate, but not surprising, to see low-level officials basically calling for the crew's jobs.

I agree, your posts are an embarrassment.

Doesn't matter for him.

He's one of those low-level officials who wants his pound of flesh whenever he sees NBA or D1 guys make a mistake.

I'm injured, so I'm on the shelf for a while. I attended one of the HS games I had to turn back, and the crew kicked 2 rules. On one of them, the coach was complaining, which should have triggered a conversation amongst the crew. We talked about it after the game. I told them at this level you can slide by with it, but in college (one of them just got picked up in D2) the entire crew probably would have lost a game.

And that is the part that people do not realize. And it certainly would have gotten back. I have kicked rules over the years and I did not get a call, email or any correspondence to say we missed a rule at the high school level. I have even kicked rules and no one even realized we kicked the rule until we started talking about it much later.

I am sorry, high school officials crack me up with their positions on what guys at these levels do. I have to see guys lose several games with that conference that year over misapplication of a rule or even judgment. I have known officials to get suspended for not following protocols that have nothing to do with the game between the lines.

Peace

No standard is needed. No definition is needed. As I wrote, it is at discretion of Referee. Look at NFHS Rule 2 Section 3. The play in question happened in a way that was not seen accurately by the officials. Nothing wrong with reviewing this type of play for that reason. They review fights for people coming off benches. This is mostly done because officials can not accurately see and recall those that come off the bench in many fighting situations. There is too much happening for processing. This is similar IMO and a review would have solved the whole issue.