Fighting and Flagrant
 

In order to classify an act as fighting do you need at least 2 participants?

For example, we know that kicking an opponent is considered an act of fighting. But what if A1 kicks B1 after both go to floor for loose ball and B1 does not react in anyway...
Is this just considered a Flagrant Foul because of the kick and not classified as fighting?

How does this impact the throw in location?

NFHS rule set.

Thanks!

I'd Rather Fight Than Switch ...
 

4-18 Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live.
Fighting includes, but is not limited to combative acts such as:
ART. 1 An attempt to strike, punch or kick by using a fist, hands, arms,
legs or feet regardless of whether contact is made.
ART. 2 An attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsporting act
that causes a person to retaliate by fighting.

One player can fight (Article 1).

Is the Thanksgiving gathering turning combative? 🤭

Fighting and Flagrant
 

Happened to me in a game three years ago. Common foul at the division line, both players spilled. The foulee got mad, attempted to kick the fouler while both were on the floor. He didn’t actually make contact, and the person he tried to kick didn’t react at all.

Didn’t matter. I DQ’d him all the same. Flagrant technical for fighting (dead ball foul).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What's the difference? (a serious question for the self-described rookie).

It is classified as fighting. Any attempt to strike another person in a combative manner is considered fighting, whether it makes contact or not.

If one person attempts to strike another without a reaction from the other person, it is a fight, and the person attempting to strike another would be ejected. This is how, by rule, you can have a fight with only one person.

Just A Guess ...
 

Just a guess, maybe this state association has more serious consequences for "fighting" versus a "regular" flagrant foul.

Again, just a guess.

Well then that is up to the state, but by rule, there is no difference. But either way you are supported for a Flagrant Act.

Peace

Is This A True Statement ???
 

All fighting situations are flagrant acts, but all flagrant acts are not fighting.

4-18 Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live.
Fighting includes, but is not limited to combative acts such as:
ART. 1 An attempt to strike, punch or kick by using a fist, hands, arms,
legs or feet regardless of whether contact is made.
ART. 2 An attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsporting act
that causes a person to retaliate by fighting.

4-19-4: A flagrant foul may be a personal or technical foul of a violent
or savage nature, or a technical noncontact foul which displays
unacceptable conduct. It may or may not be intentional. If personal, it
involves, but is not limited to violent contact such as: striking, kicking and
kneeing. If technical, it involves dead-ball contact or noncontact at any
time which is extreme or persistent, vulgar or abusive conduct. Fighting is
a flagrant act.

I am aware of all of this. The result is the same in the game, the player or players cannot play. If your state needs a classification, then put it in the appropriate report but during the game you are not suspending anyone more than the rest of the game you are playing.

Peace

Spitballing ...
 

Agree.

Correct. Based on the "language" in the official's report, it is the state, not the officials, that may charge additional penalties subsequent to the game.

But again, I was just guessing about the reason for the distinction between flagrant and fighting, as asked in the original post.

Or maybe it was a written test question issue?

OK, let them worry about that. This is often the place to figure out every issue possible if the person never asks that part.

Peace

Was It Dennis Quaid ???
 

Good point. Whatever happened to The_Rookie?

Does he plan to return to the Forum with a followup post?

Maybe his computer crashed?

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.R...=0&w=300&h=300

Maybe he has a life. After all, this is a holiday weekend.

Peace

This is a very valid observation. NFHS Rules do not automatically classify Taunting as a FTF but it is at least a TF. The MichiganHSAA has for years adopted a MichiganHSAA rule that all Taunting Fouls as FTFs. While the OhioHSAA has no such additional State adoption. Years ago, in a MichiganHSAA game, I had a player commit, what would would haven been a non-FTF Taunting Foul in OhioHSAA or FloridaHSAA but had to charge it as a FTF. The Player's HC was not happy and neither was the MichiganHSAA administrator who questioned my FTF after reading my Game Report, even he did not know the MichiganHSAA rule.

MTD, Sr.

Taunting ...
 

4-18: Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live.
Fighting includes, but is not limited to combative acts such as:
ART. 1 An attempt to strike, punch or kick by using a fist, hands, arms,
legs or feet regardless of whether contact is made.
ART. 2 An attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsporting act
that causes a person to retaliate by fighting.

Sidebar question: "Retaliate by fighting". Must the retaliation be physical, or can it be a retaliatory taunt, to be considered part of a fight?

10-4-6 A player shall not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to,
acts or conduct such as:
a. Disrespectfully addressing or contacting an official or gesturing in
such a manner as to indicate resentment.
b. Using profane or inappropriate language or obscene gestures.
c. Baiting or taunting an opponent.
NOTE: The NFHS disapproves of any form of taunting which is intended
or designed to embarrass, ridicule or demean others under any
circumstances.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. is correct (for a change), by NFHS rule, the taunt only becomes part of a fight if there is retaliation.

I'm sure that some states are better than others, but many states that add "rules" not in the NFHS rulebook fail to understand the ramifications and unintended consequences of such additions.

I am backkkkkk...thanks for missing me Billy Mac;)

I think the distinction I was looking for was Flagrant Technical and Flagrant Personal foul and who can shoot the FT and where is the ball put in play. I did not make that clear at all in the OP:confused:

Welcome Back, And Yes I Missed You ...
 

Looking back, I think that I almost get it now.

The question is about personal fouls versus technical fouls, live ball and dead ball intentional fouls, not about different types of technical fouls (flagrant for fighting versus flagrant for something else).

It may take two to Tango, it only takes one to fight.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.S...=0&w=218&h=175

T -- anyone can shoot; the throw-in is at the division line opposite the table.

P -- the player fouled must shoot; the throw-in is at the spot closest to the foul.