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Nevadaref Mon Nov 11, 2019 05:31pm

Incorrect 2019 NFHS exam questions
 
I am of the opinion that a few questions on the NFHS exam this year are incorrect. Let me know what you think.

Here are the questions:

Question 59:
If a goaltending violation is penalized for touching the ball entering the basket from below:
a.
The basket counts if the violation is by the defense.
b.
No points are scored, regardless of the violating team.
c.
The ball is awarded to a team based on the alternating-possession arrow.
d.
None of the above.


Question 65:
Correctable errors do not involve:
a.
Judgment.
b.
Scoring.
c.
Setting aside a rule.
d.
All of the above.
e.
A and C only.

Question 71:
A ball which touches a(n) ________ is the same as the ball touching the floor at that individual's
location.
a.
Teammate
b.
Official
c.
Opponent
d.
All of the above

Question 72:
A bonus free throw:
a.
Is awarded for team control fouls.
b.
Begins with the sixth team foul.
c.
Is never more than one additional attempt.
d.
Is awarded only if the first free throw is successful.








Camron Rust Mon Nov 11, 2019 06:24pm

#59. I'm not entirely sure what they're asking. What enters from below? the ball? the hand? I'm guessing it is the hand. In that case, (a) is the correct answer. Ultimately, this is one of the two worst worded questions on the test.

#65. Correctable errors always involve scoring and the setting aside of a rule. Since those ((b) and (c)) can't possibly be the right answer, (d) and (e) can't be the right answer either. That leaves (a).

#71 is fine. (d) is the correct answer IIRC. What do you think is the issue on that?

#72 is less clear. (c) is actually true, but (d) is the rulebook language. I chose (d).

BigCat Mon Nov 11, 2019 07:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1035289)
#59. I'm not entirely sure what they're asking. What enters from below? the ball? the hand? I'm guessing it is the hand. In that case, (a) is the correct answer. Ultimately, this is one of the two worst worded questions on the test.

#65. Correctable errors always involve scoring and the setting aside of a rule. Since those ((b) and (c)) can't possibly be the right answer, (d) and (e) can't be the right answer either. That leaves (a).

#71 is fine. (d) is the correct answer IIRC. What do you think is the issue on that?

#72 is less clear. (c) is actually true, but (d) is the rulebook language. I chose (d).

Well, Iíve only thought about the first one listed, 59 and have a headache....If it is the hand reaching through basket from below and touching ball outside cylinder that sounds like goaltending...but it is basket interference under rules. They are probably looking for answer A but terrible question.

BigCat Mon Nov 11, 2019 07:36pm

65, I agree is A. Correctable errors involve non judgment screwups.... Not shooting bonus or shooting when shouldnít. Counting a 3 when it is a two. Wrong player shooting FTs. Just screwups..not making a bad foul or travel call etc.

ilyazhito Mon Nov 11, 2019 08:12pm

The premise of question 72 is anachronistic. Change the bonus to be "the set of free throw(s) awarded to the non-fouling team for any common foul starting with the offending team's seventh team foul", or something to that effect, and you wouldn't have a question that doesn't make sense due to rule changes.

Camron Rust Tue Nov 12, 2019 03:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1035296)
The premise of question 72 is anachronistic. Change the bonus to be "the set of free throw(s) awarded to the non-fouling team for any common foul starting with the offending team's seventh team foul", or something to that effect, and you wouldn't have a question that doesn't make sense due to rule changes.

Except the "bonus" isn't the set of FTs. It is the ONE FT that the shooter gets as a bonus for making the first. That is why it is called the "bonus". The first shot isn't a bonus, it is the standard result.

bob jenkins Tue Nov 12, 2019 09:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1035297)
Except the "bonus" isn't the set of FTs. It is the ONE FT that the shooter gets as a bonus for making the first. That is why it is called the "bonus". The first shot isn't a bonus, it is the standard result.

Right. That's why it should never be called the "double bonus." D can't be the right answer to the last question, because of the "automatic bonus" on the 10th foul. C is obviously the right answer.

The only question I have an issue with is 59 -- and here because the example in the second half of the question can't be goaltending. But, if we ignore that, or change the question to BI, then the answer (A) is obvious.

ilyazhito Tue Nov 12, 2019 01:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1035297)
Except the "bonus" isn't the set of FTs. It is the ONE FT that the shooter gets as a bonus for making the first. That is why it is called the "bonus". The first shot isn't a bonus, it is the standard result.

Calling it the bonus assumes that there is an automatic first free throw for common fouls, with the bonus being the reward for making said first free throw. There used to be one on all common fouls, but there is no first free throw until the number of team fouls equals 7 (unless there is a shooting foul or other foul carrying a penalty involving free throws). Since there is no first free throw anymore, the definition of the bonus needs changed to reflect the new reality. My proposed definition resolves the anachronism in the current rules. Either do that, or restore the first free throw on common fouls, to keep the current definition.

Raymond Tue Nov 12, 2019 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1035302)
Calling it the bonus assumes that there is an automatic first free throw for common fouls, with the bonus being the reward for making said first free throw. There used to be one on all common fouls, but there is no first free throw until the number of team fouls equals 7 (unless there is a shooting foul or other foul carrying a penalty involving free throws). Since there is no first free throw anymore, the definition of the bonus needs changed to reflect the new reality. My proposed definition resolves the anachronism in the current rules. Either do that, or restore the first free throw on common fouls, to keep the current definition.

Or they could quit putting bullsh!t questions on the test that have absolutely zero value.

Nevadaref Tue Nov 12, 2019 03:52pm

Looks as if Iíve selected some good ones for discussion. Several conflicting answers have been provided by some rather knowledgeable officials.
Iíll allow some more time before I chime in with my thoughts and post the answers that the NHFS provided, which I disagree with, of course.

LRZ Tue Nov 12, 2019 04:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1035305)
Or they could quit putting bullsh!t questions on the test that have absolutely zero value.

Amen. Like the one about the diameter of the ring.

DrPete Tue Nov 12, 2019 05:52pm

I am NOT a rules expert like many on this forum. I did have all four of these questions on my version of the test and scored a 98, so I got at least three out of four correct.

Question 59:
If a goaltending violation is penalized for touching the ball entering the basket from below:

b. No points are scored, regardless of the violating team.

I understood this question to mean that the ball passed through the basket from below, so there would be no points scored no matter who touched the ball. Rule 9-12-3 addresses this.


Question 65:
Correctable errors do not involve:
a. Judgment.
c.Setting aside a rule.
e. A and C only.

The definition of a correctable error in 2-10 does not include judgement or setting aside a rule.
CORRECTION: Setting aside a rule is part of the Correctable Error rule, so the correct answer is a. judgement

Question 71:
Don't see any problems there.


Question 72:
A bonus free throw:
c. Is never more than one additional attempt.
d. Is awarded only if the first free throw is successful.

The only logic I could come up with here is that c. is incorrect because you could award a second attempt if there was a defensive violation, but that is a stretch. Therefore, using my NFHS to Common English dictionary, I deduced that d. was the answer they were looking for.

Nevadaref Tue Nov 12, 2019 09:11pm

Dr. Pete, please post the text of 2-10-1.

DrPete Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1035312)
Dr. Pete, please post the text of 2-10-1.

Correctable Errors
Rule 2 Section 10 Article 1

Officials may correct an error if a rule is inadvertently set aside and results in:
a. Failure to award a merited free throw.
b. Awarding an unmerited free throw.
c. Permitting a wrong player to attempt a free throw.
d. Attempting a free throw at the wrong basket.
e. Erroneously counting or canceling a score.

I told you guys I was NOT a rules expert. I read items a through e above, and didn't completely read the sentence above that says " ....if a rule is inadvertently set aside... " I guess that is the one question I missed on the test.

Thanks for pointing that out.

ilyazhito Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPete (Post 1035310)
I am NOT a rules expert like many on this forum. I did have all four of these questions on my version of the test and scored a 98, so I got at least three out of four correct.

Question 59:
If a goaltending violation is penalized for touching the ball entering the basket from below:

b. No points are scored, regardless of the violating team.

I understood this question to mean that the ball passed through the basket from below, so there would be no points scored no matter who touched the ball. Rule 9-12-3 addresses this.


Question 65:
Correctable errors do not involve:
a. Judgment.
c.Setting aside a rule.
e. A and C only.

The definition of a correctable error in 2-10 does not include judgement or setting aside a rule.


Question 71:
Don't see any problems there.


Question 72:
A bonus free throw:
c. Is never more than one additional attempt.
d. Is awarded only if the first free throw is successful.

The only logic I could come up with here is that c. is incorrect because you could award a second attempt if there was a defensive violation, but that is a stretch. Therefore, using my NFHS to Common English dictionary, I deduced that d. was the answer they were looking for.

How in creation can there be goaltending on the ball entering the basket from below? It's not a try, the ball is not entirely above the height of the ring, and is not on its downward flight with a chance to score when it is touched. As written, the situation in Question 59 does not meet the rulebook definition of goaltending. Question 59 needs to be scrapped.


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