The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Running Backwards (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104734-running-backwards.html)

Freddy Mon Sep 23, 2019 02:50am

Running Backwards
 
Is there any consensus on the issue of running backwards in order to, as it is claimed, provide better coverage of the action in transition?
I'm confident in what I personally do and teach and am aware of a thread on the topic way back in '12, but it has become necessary for me to study the issue.
I'm curious whether there has been any change in preferred practice in other areas.

BillyMac Mon Sep 23, 2019 06:41am

Meet The Mets, Meet The Mets ...
 
Step right up and greet the Mets.

À la Jimmy Piersall.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.9...=0&w=276&h=185

JRutledge Mon Sep 23, 2019 07:43am

I have never heard anyone advocate this for a lot of reasons. When you are running that way, you have no ability to see what you are about to run into at all. And when you fall, what are you going to use when you fall? Your arms and hands. So you will hurt those or you will land on your head. I have known officials that literally have gone to the hospital over running backward. So I would never advocate this on a basketball court service. At least if you are on a football field or soccer situation, you likely have more cushion to fall on if you fall. A basketball court is a much harder surface and that can be a problem if you are running and fall. Even in those other sports, we turn and run when needed.

I have never seen anyone at any major level advocate running backward. Maybe moving backward as you are not in full speed, but not running for sure.

Peace

SC Official Mon Sep 23, 2019 07:50am

The only reasons I have ever seen officials backpedal are because

(1) they are new(er) and haven't been taught otherwise,
(2) they are ball-hawking, or
(3) both 1 and 2.

You can see all you need to see (and keep yourself safer) by turning your head over your shoulder, and you won't look like a rookie either.

LRZ Mon Sep 23, 2019 08:03am

I agree about not running backwards.

But there is a related issue. As I've gotten older (or, rather, old), my peripheral vision has narrowed and my neck is not as flexible as it once was, so it's harder to get good looks at the action as I'm running downcourt, looking over a shoulder. But I would not "fix" the problem by running backwards.

Raymond Mon Sep 23, 2019 09:25am

Those who run backwards or back-pedal are either new to basketball officiating or are ball-watchers.

Camron Rust Mon Sep 23, 2019 09:51am

Not mentioned above (I think) is that there is no way you can run as fast while running backwards.

BillyMac Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:23pm

Hayfoot, Strawfoot ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1034549)
As I've gotten older ...

I always have problems looking over my right shoulder as opposed to my left shoulder.

This probably goes back to the old "Cadillac" position days, when (other then when we were working "opposite", which was seldom), we were almost always, as the new lead, running up the right side of the court looking over our left shoulders.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.z...=0&w=300&h=300

justacoach Mon Sep 23, 2019 04:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1034553)
Those who run backwards or back-pedal are either new to basketball officiating or are ball-watchers.

Or were defensive backs in a former life......but they soon learn a basketball court is much less forgiving than a turf field.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Sep 23, 2019 07:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1034560)
I always have problems looking over my right shoulder as opposed to my left shoulder.

This probably goes back to the old "Cadillac" position days, when (other then when we were working "opposite", which was seldom), we were almost always, as the new lead, running up the right side of the court looking over our left shoulders.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.z...=0&w=300&h=300


As someone who has far more experience working Cadilac than anyone in this Forum, "running backwards" and working "Cadiliac" are mutually exclusive.

MTD, Sr.

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2019 08:05am

Cadillac Position ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1034582)
As someone who has far more experience working Cadilac than anyone in this Forum ...

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.X...=0&w=265&h=167

Back when I was growing up, our neighbor had a red Cadillac convertible. Being a professional bookmaker must have been a very lucrative position.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tue Sep 24, 2019 09:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1034585)
https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.X...=0&w=265&h=167

Back when I was growing up, our neighbor had a red Cadillac convertible. Being a professional bookmaker must have been a very lucrative position.



It was also a deadly profession for "Cadillac Charlie" Cavallaro, a well known purveyor of games of chance and wholesale grape salesman in my home town of Youngstown, Ohio, who evidently had dissatisfied grape customer, because when he turned the ignition of his Cadillac on the morning of Friday, November 23, 1962, a bomb detonated which sent Charlie to an early grave.

MTD, Sr.

ilyazhito Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:45pm

"Denotated". That's funny. IMHO, backpedaling is not a valid basketball officiating technique, because the Lead has responsibilities he could miss by backpedaling, whether in a 2 or 3-person crew (sideline, last defender, assisting with pressure, etc.). Looking over the shoulder and/or running sideways open up the Lead to the court better than backpedaling, and are not as hazardous to life and limb.

justacoach Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1034586)
It was also a deadly profession for "Cadillac Charlie" Cavallaro, a well known purveyor of games of chance and grape salesman in my home town of Youngstown, Ohio, who evidently had dissatisfied grape customer, because when he turned the ignition of his Cadillac on the morning of Friday, November 23, 1962, a bomb denotated which sent Charlie to an early grave.

MTD, Sr.

Mark, you aced the history essay but bombed on your spelling test...

Kansas Ref Tue Sep 24, 2019 01:16pm

whuh?
 
What is meant by the 'cadillac' position? Evidently, I'm late to the party, no one I ref with ever uses this terminology.

sdoebler Tue Sep 24, 2019 01:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 1034592)
What is meant by the 'cadillac' position? Evidently, I'm late to the party, no one I ref with ever uses this terminology.

It's just having a perfect view and being in perfect position to see the play. I hadn't heard it either until this summer at a camp and Bob Staffen used the term frequently.

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2019 02:12pm

We Going Riding On The Freeway Of Love ...
 
.... In My Pink Cadillac (Aretha Franklin, 1985).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 1034592)
What is meant by the 'Cadillac' position? Evidently, I'm late to the party, no one I ref with ever uses this terminology.

Most that used that terminology are now dead.

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away NFHS two person mechanics always had the lead on the right side of the court, and always had the trail on the left side of the court (as the ball was advancing into the frontcourt). Even during free throws, the lead was always on the right side of the free throw shooter, and the trail was always on the left side of the free throw shooter (and trail administered first free throw). That was called the Cadillac position. Tableside and not-tableside didn't really apply to normal up and down the court mechanics (at one time we even could put the ball in play on either side of the division line after a technical foul).

Occasionally, due to an odd throwin situation, in order to get good coverage the officials had to work "opposite", with the lead on the left side of the court, and the trail on the right side of the court (as the ball was advancing into the frontcourt).

As the ball crossed the division line, or as soon as possible, the two officials would scurry back to "normal", i.e. the Cadillac position, usually controlled, or forced, by the position, or movement, of the trail.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.P...=0&w=300&h=300

Raymond Tue Sep 24, 2019 02:24pm

I've only ever heard the Cadillac position referred to in 3-man, and it's when the Center is opposite the table. I would hear veteran officials talk about trying to be in the Cadillac position for last second shots. Don't know the reasoning other than maybe than wanting the C to have last shot responsibilities.

Freddy Tue Sep 24, 2019 02:51pm

Though the former NFHS Officials Manual said nothing regarding running backwards (the new one hasn't arrived yet), one of the NCAA manuals stipulates this:

1. As soon as a new possession by the defensive team is imminent, the T official must move quickly toward the opposite endline and become the new L.
2. The new L must look back over her/his shoulder and observe the status of the game clock, 30-second clock, the ball and players as the play comes toward the new L.
3. When the ball is coming down the L and T side of the court, the L assumes the wide-angle position
4. When the ball is coming down the middle of the court or on the C side of the court, the L assumes the close-down position to receive the play.

The bolded part of #2 precludes running backwards.

Camron Rust Tue Sep 24, 2019 03:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdoebler (Post 1034595)
It's just having a perfect view and being in perfect position to see the play. I hadn't heard it either until this summer at a camp and Bob Staffen used the term frequently.

That may a be a new use of the term, but it isn't the historical use. Billy's post covers the actual historical use of it.

BillyMac Tue Sep 24, 2019 05:04pm

An Expert ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1034599)
Billy's post covers the actual historical use of it.

Yeah, because I'm whatcha call ... old.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tue Sep 24, 2019 05:45pm

I want to address two things.

1.0) The "hit": The "hit" on "Cadillac Charlie" was a costly one in lives lost and ruined. It happened on the day after Thanksgiving. The "hit" went down just after breakfast. Charlie was going to take his two younger sons to CYO football practice and then meet a buyer for a railroad car load of grapes. Cavallaro and his family lived on the north side of Youngstown only about 3 miles from where I live in Liberty Township.

Cavallaro and his youngest son, just 11 years old, were already in the car sitting behind his father, and his middle son, just 12 years old, was opening the backdoor on the passenger side when Cavallaro turned the ignition. The explosion was so powerful that Cavallaro's body was torn into pieces and his younger son's body was practically vaporized. His middle son escaped death but underwent five hours of surgery and had to have one of his hips replaced, and walked with a cane the rest of his life.

While the Youngstown Diocese allowed Cavallaro to be buried in the Catholic cemetery, only a funeral mass was said for his son. His son's casket was allowed in the church but not Cavallaro's.


2.00) The origin of "Officiating Cadillac":

2.10) The term originated from the women's college side of officiating and only used in a Two-Person Crew.

2.20) Back in the "Ancient Days" the R faced the Table and the U was Table Side for all Jump Balls at the Center Circle.

2.21) If the the Team, that gained Control of the Ball, Basket's was to the U's right, the U would move to his/her right and become the L, Table Side, and the R would become T, Opposite the Table. When the other Team gained Control of the Ball, the Old L would become the New T and would remain Table Side while the Old T would become the New L and remain Opposite the Table. This was called Working Left Handed (because the T's left hand was always closest to a Side Line) or Cadillac.

2.22) Whenever a Throw-in required the L and the T to change sides of the Court this was called Working Right Handed (because the T's right hand was always closest to a Side Line).

2.23) Whenever a Throw-in resulted in the Officials working Right Handed, there was a protocol (not found in either the NFHS or CCA Men's and Women's Two-Person Manuals) for the Crew to move from Right Handed to Left Handed (Cadillac) once all ten Players and the Ball was in the Offensive Team's Front Court.

2.24) Cadillac was still used after the adoption of the Three Point FG and the L going Ball Side. The L going Ball Side while in Cadillac did not cause the Crew to stop officiating Cadillac.

So ends today's history lesson.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. I should add that Liberty Township was also home of the infamous Jungle Inn, only about a 1.25 miles as the crow flies from my home. After "The War" Dean Martin was a singing waiter in the Jungle Inn's night's club and a croupier in the Jungle Inn's mob run casino whose security you uniformed Trumbull County Sheriff Deputies with Thompson Sub-machine guns.

RefRich Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1034597)
I've only ever heard the Cadillac position referred to in 3-man, and it's when the Center is opposite the table. I would hear veteran officials talk about trying to be in the Cadillac position for last second shots. Don't know the reasoning other than maybe than wanting the C to have last shot responsibilities.

I've heard it called Cadillac due to not having to run or move so much. If you're in a Cadillac, everyone else does all the work. This position was given to officials who would get burned on a fast break. If they got down the court a little late, the L and T covered the area being missed.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:23pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1