Your Opinion Sought: "Strong Side"
 

Particularly for the 3-person system, what do you consider the best working definition of the term "Strong Side"?

Strong side: “Whichever side of the court has two officials”

Ideally, strong side and ball side are one in the same. However, as AremRed notes above, strong side has L & T, whereas weak side only has C.

THE definition is whichever side has the Lead & Trail.

Often confused with ball-side.

I hate it when my Lead stops rotation in the middle of the lane right underneath the basket instead of establishing a "side" to be on:mad::mad:

Two-Person or Three-Person: Strong Side is the side of the court on which the Lead is. That has always been the definition of Strong Side.

MTD, Sr.

Is s/he "stopping the rotation" or "pinching the paint?"

Connecticut ...
 

Connecticut is still, for the most part, a two person state. While I’ve observed dozens of three person games, I’ve only worked two actual three person games, attended only one three person workshop, and worked a few three person scrimmages.

Keeping that in mind, here's my two cents.

Until Freddy's recent Forum post, I’ve only heard the term “strong side” as a basketball coach, not as an official. I coached middle school basketball for over twenty-five years and attended many coaching workshops, including those with college coach presenters, and the term “strong side” always meant the side of the court with the ball. The very first time I heard it we were instructed to imagine a string tied to one basket ring and stretched across the length of the court and tied to the other basket ring. If the ball was one side of this string, that was the “strong side”.

As a basketball official (99% two person) I’ve always been taught that the side of the court with the ball was called the “ball side”. The "string" is called the "basket line". In a two person game this was almost always in regard to the lead moving across the lane to help with matchups on the “ball side”.

That’s my Connecticut coaching and officiating (two person) side of story and I’m sticking to it.

I really can't offer anything else of value to Freddy's three person question, other than don't confuse coaching language with officiating language.

https://live.staticflickr.com/3775/1...8029f778_m.jpg

The answer for 3 person is pretty straight forward. Not much to add to what's already been answered by myself and a couple of other posters.


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Thanx to all who offered legitimate responses.

Looks like I'm being won over.

Where oh where did I pick up the concept that Strong Side is the side of the court that, by virtue of the on-ball competitive matchup and player population on Center's side of the floor, prompts Lead to rotate across to put two officials on that side because Center can't officiate all that's there him/herself.

Strong Side = a condition we respond to, rather than a condition we create.

Based on the responses here and elsewhere, it appears I might be wrong.

I just can't track it down where I got that idea from. Any guesses?

Actually, I share this opinion.

Thank you for the responses.

In answer to the question, "When should Lead rotate?", I've been accustomed to say, "When it is apparent that Center's side has become strong side." That, by my previous working definition of strong-side ("The side of the court with the on-ball competitive matchup and player population prompting Lead to rotate") always worked so well. But now, if I change to conform to one of the different definitions mentioned above, how shall I answer that question? What simple and succinct answer would you recommend to the question, "When should Lead rotate?"
(Not a trick question. I'm truly interested in changing...)

When the rotation will put the crew in a better position

I would say that waiting until it was "apparent..." was probably a little late. I like to go when I see that situation developing, not once it has already developed.

As for the question, to expand on sdoebler's reply...

When the rotation will put the crew in a better position...to officiate the play that is developing.

For example, when the ball is out top and the PG is moving left to right and the all-star post that the ball always goes to is also moving left to right in order to get a position on the lower box, I go with the post before the ball settles. You want to be there before the ball gets into that post play. Once the ball gets there and it is apparent, you're too late.

Strong side is ball and L side. Simple.

It doesn't matter if 2-ref or 3-ref. It doesn't matter if 2 bigs are in low post opposite side of the ball. L can still officiate them and, if not due to officiating ball, then C can.

I disagree...as does the mechanics manual defitition. Strong side is not defined by the ball. It is defined only by the location of the L....

Often, they are one and the same, but the L, in some case is not ball-side and they are still on the Strong Side.

When it is clear to the Lead that the Center will be overloaded.

Officials can generally handle two match-ups, but three is too much. Just like the T doesn’t need help from the C in the backcourt when it is 2 on 2, but does once five players (or it is 3 on 3) are actively participating in the action in the backcourt. This is guideline that I use to tell me when a partner needs coverage help.

So a ball-handler with an on-ball defender would be one match-up (and the primary one), add two opposing players jockeying for position in the high or low post on the C’s side (or running a pick and roll) and that official has the maximum that he can handle. If another player now comes over to screen, set up for a shot, or to receive a pass on the wing, the Lead should be rotating.

I also agree with Camron. Go with the player or competitive match-up that indicates to you that the C’s side is now where the action is. Don’t wait. See that play develop and get into position to officiate it. Don’t leave your C overwhelmed and trying to cover everything going on over there by himself!

Correct, this is where the manual is wrong. The writers, and only the writers, defined it by an official, whereas everyone else (unless your an official reading the manual) defines it by where the ball is. Fans, coaches, players, and officials all describe play and activity based on where the ball is, not an official.

During practice....

Coach: Billy, go to the strong side so we can get Tom an isolation play.
Billy: Where would the lead official be? That's what determine strong side coach.
Coach: You are off the team. Get out.

There could be 10 players on one side and L on the other. Per you, and the manual, the strong side would contain no players. No one would claim the side with the L official is strong side. That would be illogical.

Often? That is my point. They should always be the same. Stick to that and there are far fewer problems than using the manual definition.;)

Of all the replies thus far, this is the best I've seen.
Open for other perspectives.

Players/coaches/fans, sure, they can use it however they want. But, we're not talking players/coaches/fans. We're talking officiating. Officials don't describe it the same way (or at least shouldn't) because we're talking about entirely different things. In the officiating context, it is talking about the strength of the officiating alignment....2 officials makes it strong (in 3-person), the L (in 2-person) makes it strong. That is because the presence of the L gives much stronger coverage than if the L is on the other side.

Officiating terminology often differs from fan/coach/player-speak. This is just another example....we don't call reaches, we don't call walking, we don't say a player was set, etc.

The *TEAM's* strong side is where most of the players are. That's why coaches and players use it as yuou describe.

The *OFFICIAL's* strong side is where most of the officials are. That's why we should use the term that way.

It's perfectly consistent.

Officialese ...
 

From my two cents:

Good point Bob. Consistent? Yes, but not in the most efficient way. To be even more efficient and more consistent, strong side should be defined the same way for everyone. Too bad the manual editors did not write what they meant.

Ironically, in discussions involving the court, I have never heard an official use the term strong side to discuss where the L was. Rather, they were using it to describe where the ball was. Invariably, the point being made in the discussion was that the L should be on the strong side, where the ball was.

I get why the question was asked and why someone might want to know. But when it is all said and done, does it matter if what we say it is differs from what teams or coaches use? We are not them and what we call or refer to our language of the rules or mechanics, is really not the concern of coaches or fans for that matter. These are terms or jargon for us to teach the system. I really do not care what others say and it is not a thing where many people even realize our logic for why we use certain terms. Do you think anyone's life is changed because we use "end line" over "base line?" Nope. No one cares but officials and many times officials do not care in the right circles.

Peace

Kipling Said It Best ...
 

"We've gotta match their strong side with our strong side. When the on-ball matchup and enough action is over there that Center is overloaded, Lead's rotation should already have been underway."

Maybe?
Close?
Got Better?

We have been going on for two pages now and I do not wish to sound like a curmudgeonly old coot, BUT read what I highlighted above in RED! And then go to the 2017-19 NFHS Basketball Officials Manual, 2.35 STRONG SIDE, on Page 19. I do not have access to my Men's and Women's CCA Manuals but I will bet dollars to donuts that the definition of Strong Side is exactly the same.

Strong Side has only one definition and it is the Side of the Court on which the Lead is. It has absolutely nothing to do with Ball Location, the T's Location, or match-ups!

MTD, Sr.

Camron:

I missed your post with the CCA Manual Definition. Thank you.

MTD, Sr.

I do not dispute your objective evidence and points. I am simply saying that it (the manual definition) is very inefficient, inconsistent, and not what the writers meant.

Doing an internet search for "basketball strong side" will reveal hundreds of thousands of results and I could not find one (not that I looked at them all) that mentioned it was the side of the L official. They (most of the initial relevant results were involving definitions) all included it to mean the side of the ball. If anything the writers should correct it but no one cares enough to put up a fuss over consistency/efficiency any more.

The writers meant exactly what is there. It has always been that way. The fact that you found thousands of references to another meaning in a different context is irrelevant. Again, we're talking officiating terminology, not player/coach terminology. They're meant to describe two different things for two groups of people.

I also fail to see how it is in any way inefficient or inconsistent.

You're arguing that they should change a definition to match your misunderstanding. Are you going to argue that they should put over-the-back in the book next because many players and coaches use that term?

Who the hell cares what the player, coaches, fans, and talking heads say and think?

We are the game officials! We use correct terminology as defined in the Rules Book, the Casebook, the Officials Manual, the Illustrated Rules Book, and the Basketball Handbook. And the definition of Strong Side in the Officials Manual is very efficient: Short and to the point! If an official uses any other description to describe the Strong Side which does not conform to the NFHS Officials Manual or the CCA Men's and Women's Manual, that official is incorrect!

This should end this discussion.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. And as a Moderator I really hope that I do not have to close this thread, something I have never done before.

No, they should change it to match everyone's understanding.

No, because officials do not use it. You are changing the scenario from a shared term by more than one group to a term used by one group.

Officials do not use correct terminology all the time, not even close. Can't believe that you would suggest it.

And when a room full of officials uses the term strong side to describe the ball side, they are not incorrect because the communication works. All are in agreed understanding. As I indicated, I know of no official, nor anyone for that matter, that describes strong side the manual way.

At your next large meeting, put up a slide asking the room to define strong side. Please, no leading the witnesses. See how many have the word "ball" in their definition. Then, feel free to correct them all, lol. I plan on it at our next meeting.

Good to know though, that the manual/books suggest otherwise. It might come in handy as some obscure text question some day, or maybe on Jeopardy!

Everyone does not use the the way you keep insisting. If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It sounds like you have someone in your area who has misinformed the masses and you're fighting to avoid admitting it.

Now, as to asking others, I did what you said with a small sample by text message. It is late so I have only got one response, but that response actually gave your definition (and from a veteran of a few state tournaments that is generally very on top of definitions and such).

You're not alone in your belief.

I must not be part of "everyone". Who are these people?

Every time I've been in a room full of officials and someone has described ball-side as equaling strong-side, that person has been corrected. Must be a regional thing. :rolleyes:

Educated officials that get in the rule book understand that the strong side is the side with two officials. I have sat through college camps throughout the summer with the clinicians referring to the strong side in this way, no one was confused or questioned this.

I would guarantee that there are officials that use the term "over the back" just because they and maybe some of their colleges may understand what it means, does not make it correct.

OK, guys. With acrimony asserting it's acrimonious head, I'll end this thread. Which is only fitting, because I'm the one who started it. I've learned what I need to learn, and thank all for the responses which, after all, were the opinions I was searching for.

Yes, I understand the phraseology of the NFHS Officials' Manual. (As an "educated official", I couldn't find it in the rule book . . . :)
I know what's in the manual. I was just trying to identify where the heck I came up with the definition I have used -- with no confusion on anyone's part and with not a single person challenging my use of the term, for a long time until now. I still don't know where I learned it, only that Nevada may have learned it somewhere, too. Not sure if that puts me in good company or not. :)

Anyhow, instead of me, answering the question, "How do I know when I should rotate?", as I used to:

A: "When C's side becomes strong side, you better have rotated."

Now, I'll learn to say this:

A: "When the on-ball competitive matchup and the predominant number of players are on C's side..."
. . . or . . .
A: "When it's clear that you have nothing happening in your PCA and C is overloaded over there..."

More cumbersome, but I think I can do it.

Thanx for the discussion.

Close it.

My entire career has been based on repeated teachings for L to:

mirror the ball unless play dictates otherwise.


Play that might dictate otherwise includes ping-ponging in a zone, recognizing a set play, or lower skill basketball.

As L, very rarely will I not be ball side. If anything, I am guilty of occasionally rotating too frequently. I am yet to see that result in any problems though.

I must not be part of "everyone" either.


I will take it a step further. I cannot remember the last time this term was consistently used to describe where the officials are. We mostly talk about "balancing the floor" and mirroring the ball on some level, but hardly ever use the term "strong side" as it relates to where the officials are located. Not a term that is heavily used and that includes the college level when I am at camp.

Peace

I will not say this was an emphasis my entire career, but certainly most of my career. And still not much about what you call it beyond what the lead is instructed to do.

Peace

1) Camron Rust and I have posted the correct, and I am emphasizing the word "correct", definition of "Strong Side" per the NFHS and CCA Men's and Women's Officiating Manuals. And let me repeat the definition of "Strong Side" one more time: The Strong Side of the Court is the side of Court on which the L is located. No other conditions matter. What side the Strong Side is not determined where Ball is, where the T is, where a majority Players are, or anything else except where the L is located.

2) We, the Game Officials, are the expert of the Rules and Mechanics. Our job description requires to know the Rules and to know correct Mechanics. Using correct terminology is what we are supposed to do. To do anything less would be to the detriment of our profession.

3) I was an active boys'/girls' H.S. official for 46 years, women's college official for 34 years, and a men's jr. college official for 15 years. I was a Rules Interpreter, I taught the OhioHSAA Certified Basketball Officiating Class, I sat on three IAABO National Committees, two recent past Chairmen of the NFHS Rules Committe are personal friends, I have attend basketball officiating camps, and been a evaluatator at IAABO camps. Guess what?! I have never (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirely) heard Strong Side defined as anything other that the side of the Court where the L is. And in any discussion in which I have ever been involved, any time an official used a incorrect definition either I corrected them or someone above my pay grade corrected them.

If one wants to be taken seriously in any profession then that person must use correct terminology.

Just one more time before I sign off for the evening: The Strong Side of the Court is the side of the Court that the L is located. At this point I would hope that BillyMac would insert a GIF of a rapper dropping his mic, :D.

MTD, Sr.

Quote: "I... I.. I.. I.. I.. I.. I.. I.."

Who can argue with that?

I said close it about five posts ago. DeNucci, why don't you just close the discussion and, given the opinions I was seeking to learn have been given about two pages ago, exercise your "I" once and for all on this thread?

PS. Answer you email once and a while, will ya'? :)

And I Tell You, Ask And You Will Receive (Luke 11) ...
 

Apparently MTD has never been to Rome.;)