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-   -   Stolen tip (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104525-stolen-tip.html)

thedewed Mon Apr 08, 2019 08:52pm

Stolen tip
 
Do they allow that in the NC game? LOL. He definitely got it on the way up.

SC Official Mon Apr 08, 2019 09:14pm

Christ.

Why are worthless posts like this allowed?

thedewed Mon Apr 08, 2019 09:26pm

You don't think it's noteworthy on an officiating board that the opening tip of the NC game was a stolen tip? OK.

Matt S. Mon Apr 08, 2019 09:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1032160)
Christ.

Why are worthless posts like this allowed?

SC official, why is nearly every one of your posts along the lines of 'ultimate referee apologist?'

Every stakeholder, on the floor and on this forum, is human. If people want to vent here, so be it! Your level of defensiveness is a bit much.

SC Official Mon Apr 08, 2019 09:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedewed (Post 1032161)
You don't think it's noteworthy on an officiating board that the opening tip of the NC game was a stolen tip? OK.

No, I really don’t. And that’s assuming it actually was a violation.

Do you have a point other than to play “gotcha” and point out that the official possibly made a mistake? If you do, then make it.

SC Official Mon Apr 08, 2019 09:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt S. (Post 1032162)
SC official, why is nearly every one of your posts along the lines of 'ultimate referee apologist?'

Every stakeholder, on the floor and on this forum, is human. If people want to vent here, so be it! Your level of defensiveness is a bit much.

Posting or discussing missed plays is fine if they have a learning purpose.

If their only purpose is to say “gotcha,” as is the case with this thread, they don’t belong on this forum. Take it to one of the many fanboy sites.

Thankfully, I don’t answer to you.

JRutledge Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:32pm

Was that a stolen tip too?

Peace

chapmaja Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1032165)
Posting or discussing missed plays is fine if they have a learning purpose.

If their only purpose is to say “gotcha,” as is the case with this thread, they don’t belong on this forum. Take it to one of the many fanboy sites.

Thankfully, I don’t answer to you.

Are you a moderator on these forums?

thedewed Tue Apr 09, 2019 08:00am

Wasn't it a stolen tip?

deecee Tue Apr 09, 2019 08:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedewed (Post 1032178)
Wasn't it a stolen tip?

Was it?

Pantherdreams Tue Apr 09, 2019 08:20am

This whole conversation sounds a lot like teenagers in love trying decide if just worrying about a tip is big deal or not.

Just play safe y'all.

Matt S. Tue Apr 09, 2019 08:24am

Pantherdream, I wholeheartedly agree with you, and typically never engage in pettiness like this.

However, this particular person has made countless posts during the course of the tournament that are nothing more than acting like the safety patrol in elementary school. Someone had to call him out for his BS, and that someone was me.

OK, I'm done :)

JRutledge Tue Apr 09, 2019 08:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt S. (Post 1032181)
Pantherdream, I wholeheartedly agree with you, and typically never engage in pettiness like this.

However, this particular person has made countless posts during the course of the tournament that are nothing more than acting like the safety patrol in elementary school. Someone had to call him out for his BS, and that someone was me.

OK, I'm done :)

You mean like the OPer and this topic? We started a thread over a stolen tip? That is what we are talking about? Not one of many topics in a "request" thread?

That to me is a bunch of BS and I am not a moderator. Just stupid on many levels.

Peace

SC Official Tue Apr 09, 2019 09:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt S. (Post 1032181)
Pantherdream, I wholeheartedly agree with you, and typically never engage in pettiness like this.

However, this particular person has made countless posts during the course of the tournament that are nothing more than acting like the safety patrol in elementary school. Someone had to call him out for his BS, and that someone was me.

OK, I'm done :)

When posters that haven't sniffed the resume of Final Four officials (i.e. all of us) create threads for the sole purpose of pointing out "Oh look, they (might have) messed something up, how could a FF official make that mistake?" I have no problem calling it out. I'm sorry you do.

Again, I don't answer to you. If you think I'm petty, why did you respond? Clearly the moderators have no issue with this thread, so I guess I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

SC Official Tue Apr 09, 2019 09:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1032182)
You mean like the OPer and this topic? We started a thread over a stolen tip? That is what we are talking about? Not one of many topics in a "request" thread?

That to me is a bunch of BS and I am not a moderator. Just stupid on many levels.

Peace

Not even a video request for the jump ball or an interest in discussing what we can do better. Just a sarcastic "do they allow that, LOL?" How anyone thinks a thread like this is productive or helpful is beyond me.

Rich Tue Apr 09, 2019 09:31am

I'm letting this thread go mainly because I can't believe the crew did so well last night that most of the discussion is around the freaking jump ball.

JRutledge Tue Apr 09, 2019 09:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1032187)
Not even a video request for the jump ball or an interest in discussing what we can do better. Just a sarcastic "do they allow that, LOL?" How anyone thinks a thread like this is productive or helpful is beyond me.

My question is when was the last time they saw a stolen tip called? I do not know when that took place.

Peace

bob jenkins Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1032190)
My question is when was the last time they saw a stolen tip called? I do not know when that took place.

Peace

I think it was with about 20 minutes left in the first half. Sorry that I can't be more precise -- but I hope that's close enough for you to be able to find the video.

Raymond Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 1032189)
I'm letting this thread go mainly because I can't believe the crew did so well last night that most of the discussion is around the freaking jump ball.

I didn't even notice either of last night's jump balls. If I see a stolen tip, I whistle it back. I know I've done it once within the last year, but it was so unmemorable to me that I don't even remember what the game was. I think it was a preseason college scrimmage.

Now I'm sitting back waiting for a teaching point so I can make my games better. For some reason I don't think there will be any type of teaching point forthcoming.

chapmaja, thedewed, matt s.---what do y'all have for me?

Raymond Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1032194)
I think it was with about 20 minutes left in the first half. Sorry that I can't be more precise -- but I hope that's close enough for you to be able to find the video.

Are you sure it wasn't 20 minutes after halftime intermission? :D

JRutledge Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1032194)
I think it was with about 20 minutes left in the first half. Sorry that I can't be more precise -- but I hope that's close enough for you to be able to find the video.

Thanks for the clarification. I think I would have had a hard time finding it since there were two in this game. Not sure when the other one happened either. ;)

Peace

SC Official Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1032190)
My question is when was the last time they saw a stolen tip called? I do not know when that took place.

Peace

Like other “rare” calls, it has to be blatantly obvious for me to whistle it. A lot of jump balls probably are “technically” stolen, but everyone I’ve ever looked up to says you don’t want to start the game off with that call unless you really have no other option.

Matt S. Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1032200)
I didn't even notice either of last night's jump balls. If I see a stolen tip, I whistle it back. I know I've done it once within the last year, but it was so unmemorable to me that I don't even remember what the game was. I think it was a preseason college scrimmage.

Now I'm sitting back waiting for a teaching point so I can make my games better. For some reason I don't think there will be any type of teaching point forthcoming.

chapmaja, thedewed, matt s.---what do y'all have for me?

Well, since you called me out, I'll humor you:

1. Call the obvious
2. Calling back a marginally-stolen tip is likely setting a precedent for that game that an official might regret - because both coaches (especially the one who was penalized) are going to expect you to call EVERYTHING.
3. Why can't we all get along??!!

IUgrad92 Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedewed (Post 1032178)
Wasn't it a stolen tip?

By NFHS rule 6.3.6, yes, there was a violation on the jump ball to start the game. "One or both jumpers must touch the ball after it has reached its highest point."

I'm guessing the rule for college men's is the same, but not positive.

I've been seeing this type of play happening more and more at both the college and high school level with no whistle. Either it's U1's and U2's not being ready to observe this or maybe it's a growing thought of "as long as nothing egregious occurs, let's just get the game going", as the jump ball procedure becomes more of a 'nuisance' in today's game.

On the flips side however, the NBA still loves the jump ball!!

Rich Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IUgrad92 (Post 1032216)
By NFHS rule 6.3.6, yes, there was a violation on the jump ball to start the game. "One or both jumpers must touch the ball after it has reached its highest point."

I'm guessing the rule for college men's is the same, but not positive.

I've been seeing this type of play happening more and more at both the college and high school level with no whistle. Either it's U1's and U2's not being ready to observe this or maybe it's a growing thought of "as long as nothing egregious occurs, let's just get the game going", as the jump ball procedure becomes more of a 'nuisance' in today's game.

On the flips side however, the NBA still loves the jump ball!!

The other team gets two of the next three.

thedewed Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:54pm

I thought it was a stolen tip, but the other jumper was trying to do the same thing and got beat to it. Interesting situation. do you call it? how bad does it need to be before you call it? Is it relevant that the other jumper was right there with him?

It is a conversation moment. I found it ironic that they appeared to miss something so quickly.

But I will say I thought that group last night did a great, great job.

I still maintain that the instant replay changing calls on o/b plays does change calls that normally aren't even thought about in live play. If a defender gets hand on ball, but doesn't follow through completely, much of the time the ball possessor is technically the last to touch, because his hand is still on it last. We all tend to call it out on the one that gave it the most impetus. That was the case with the reversal in the last minute. And I didn't think the activity as TT was gathering the ball in transition was a foul.

BillyMac Tue Apr 09, 2019 01:35pm

No More Jump Balls ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IUgrad92 (Post 1032216)
... the NBA still loves the jump ball!!

Since when is NBA the initials of Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.?

No more jump balls, give the ball to the visitors to start the game and use the possession arrow for the rest the game, including any overtimes.

Retire the jump ball and send it to where they keep the peach baskets and chicken wire boundaries, in Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.'s attic.

Also, as a preemptive strike, "Shut up Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.".

ODog Tue Apr 09, 2019 03:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1032200)


Now I'm sitting back waiting for a teaching point so I can make my games better. ...

Here's a sequence maybe Rut can dial up for us:

About 6:00 to go in regulation, Kyle Guy from UVA is seemingly tied up or fouled on the perimeter …

… play continues, UVA player ends up with the ball under the hoop. He backs into and displaces TT's Tariq Owens to create space for a good hoop and a foul. Owens fouled out on the play.

I'd like to hear people's perspectives on the whole sequence, but particularly the foul that was whistled. I might have gone PC, if anything.


There is an overhead replay of this too, Rut. Thanks.

ODog Tue Apr 09, 2019 03:16pm

Neve mind. I missed the "2019 Nat Ch Game video request thread."

JRutledge Tue Apr 09, 2019 03:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODog (Post 1032237)
Neve mind. I missed the "2019 Nat Ch Game video request thread."

Are you saying the play was posted? I just want to make sure I posted that play you are talking about?

Peace


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