Flagrant Foul Example
 

https://www.12up.com/posts/6325862-v...u5A82RlIbD2GdU

The article says only a common foul was called, but I don't believe that. Does anyone know anymore on this?

This folks is the poster video for "What does a flagrant foul look like?"

If you watch the video, both the C and T come running in with arms crossed.
There is no way that they went with a common foul.

That's what I thought, but the article says otherwise. I'm hoping someone out there knows more, because a common foul here is a shame.

That was a fan blog disguised as an article. I was expecting to see a guy getting undercut 3 feet in the air.

Judge this play only by the video, which is a body block of a guy about to take off for a layup. What was written in that article had no bearing in reality.



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Looks like incidental contact and play on to me.

I do not believe the article either. The officials clearly have a signal for at the very least "Intentional Foul." Now if it was me, we are certainly giving a flagrant foul, but there is no signal for sure a foul officially. The one flagrant foul I had in my career for an elbow I gave the crossed-arms signal. I did not know what else to do and my partner came over and said, "You are going to give a flagrant for that right?" I said "yes" and called a flagrant foul.

Peace

Heave Ho ...
 

We unofficially use the old heave ho "You are outta here" signal here. A lot of basketball fans watch baseball and know what the signal means.

I do of a "thumb" when you report this at the table as I did in that example. But I have not seen a situation where my first reaction would eject them with my signal. I might do that in my mind, but doubt it would be that instinctive.

Peace

Report Heave Ho To The Table ...
 

Agree. If I were the calling official I would immediately come up with the intentional hard foul signal (not official IAABO, but we do it locally). Then I would get together with my partner to make sure that we were both on board with the flagrant foul and only signal the "heave ho" when I report to the table.

Haha, seriously. "...heading for a crowd-electrifying dunk" :rolleyes:

More like: Headed for a goofy layup attempt or outright just losing the ball OOB on his own.

And for the record: Flagrant.

That was FLAGRANT... player is ejected. Hey but he might get to play football next year.

I like the article that states a technical foul was available. Yep a strong knowledge of the rules goes a long way...

The article also says a voice in the video is asking for a flagrant. No, that voice asked "Where's the T?"

I suspect the author doesn't know the difference between NCAA/NFHS/NBA fouls.

I think I got to the bottom of this.

This appears to be the last home game of the season Elyria Catholic played being a first round playoff game against Crestwood HS.

In the box score I found I did see this tidbit.

" Flagrant foul: B. Angle. Technical foul: Crestwood bench. "

The final score by the way was a 20 point Elyria Catholic win, ending Crestwood's season. The player who was fouled had 26 points.

thank you

Even in FIBA where we do have a signal for a disqualifying foul many of use the baseball style heave- ho at the scene of the crime and give the proper DQ signal when reporting.

Proper DQ Signal ...
 

Curious? What is the "proper disqualifying signal"?

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.-...=0&w=300&h=300

I wish...

https://www.basketball.ca/files/2018...pt2018_low.pdf signal #52

We have a swimming official i work with that used to tell swimmers that a DQ means their parents have to buy them Dairy Queen on the way home from the meet. He used to tell that to his kids when he had to DQ them in age group swimming. Other parents didn't like hearing it so he was asked to stop.

Legit question because I've never dealt with this situation; is there any difference between an intentional and a flagrant in NFHS other than the ejection of the offending player? Does the player being fouled have to shoot the shots? Or does the ruling of a flagrant foul change this?

No change in the administration. Same shooter, same shots, same throwin spot.

Just to not get them confused, fighting is considered a "Flagrant Act," not a flagrant foul, and so while the ejection is the same, anyone can shoot the free-throws, ball out at division line to the offended team.

So the status of the ball, live or dead, makes no difference?

What are you talking about? A1 punching B1 during a live ball is a flagrant personal foul and B1 (or his substitute, if B1 is injured) must attempt the FTs.

NFHS Case Book has fighting during a live ball as a flagrant personal foul and fighting during a dead ball as a flagrant technical foul.

Live ball examples:

10.5.5 SITUATION A:

Post-players A1 and B1 begin punching each other and play is stopped. Two substitutes from each team leave the bench area and come onto the court. The four substitutes: (a) do not become involved in the fight; (b) all become involved in the fight; (c) substitutes A6, A7 and B6 do not participate in the fight, but B7 becomes involved in the fight; (d) head coach enters the court to assist in curtailing the fighting.

RULING: A1 and B1 are charged with flagrant fouls and are disqualified, but no free throws result from the double personal flagrant fouls. The four substitutes are charged with flagrant technical fouls and are disqualified. No free throws are awarded for the simultaneous technical fouls as the number of bench personnel leaving the bench and the penalties are the same for both teams. In (a), one technical foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach of each team. In (b), each head coach is charged indirectly with two technical fouls (one for each bench player leaving the bench and becoming involved in the fight). In (c), the Team A head coach is charged indirectly with one technical foul and the Team B head coach is indirectly charged with two technical fouls (one for substitutes B6 and B7 leaving the bench, and one for B7 becoming involved in the fight). In situations (a), (b) and (c), the ball is put in play at the point of interruption. Legal in (d).

COMMENT: The head coach may enter the court in the situation where a fight may break out or has broken out to prevent the situation from escalating. (4-36, 7-5-3b, 10-5-5 NOTE)

8.6.3 SITUATION A:

A1 is attempting the second free throw of a two-shot foul. While the second free throw is in flight, A2 and B1 punch each other simultaneously.

RULING: Both A2 and B1 are disqualified for fighting. Since this is a double personal foul, no free throws are awarded. The ball is put in play at the point of interruption. If A1's free throw is successful, Team B is awarded a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. If A1's free throw is unsuccessful, the alternating-possession procedure is used. (4-19-8, 4-36, 6-4-3f, 7-5-3b, 10-4-8)

Dead ball example:

10.5.5 SITUATION D:

While the ball is live, players A1 and B1 commit fouls against each other at approximately the same time. A1 then punches B1. B6 and B7 leave the confines of the bench but do not participate in the fight.

RULING: The common fouls by A1 and B1 constitute a double personal foul so no free throws are awarded. A1’s punch constitutes fighting and results in a flagrant technical foul and disqualification, and two free throws are awarded. B6 and B7 are assessed technical fouls and disqualified for entering the court illegally during a fight. Although B6 and B7 are both assessed technical fouls, only one is penalized with two free throws. The coach is penalized one indirect technical foul for B6 and B7 leaving the bench. (4-19-8, 10-4-7, 10-7 PENALTIES (Rule 10 Summary) 8a, 10-7 PENALTIES 8b) Administration of Penalties: The double personal fouls offset and no free throws are awarded. With the marked lane spaces clear, any member of Team B (other than B6 and B7) attempts two free throws for the flagrant technical foul (fighting) by A1. These attempts are followed by any member of Team A (other than A1) attempting two free throws (with the marked lane spaces clear) for the technical foul charged to B6 and B7 for leaving the bench during a fight, but not participating. Following the free throw attempts by Team A, play is resumed with a throw-in by Team A at the division line opposite the scorer’s table.

Nevada, I knew that. I was trying to make the point you made next by being a bit more indirect :).

You guys are right, sorry, not sure what I was thinking on that. I suppose most of the fights I ever discuss here or elsewhere happen during a dead ball, but certainly I stand corrected that live ball action is a flagrant foul and treated as such.

1) This video was posted on Friday, March 22, 2019, which was the second day of the OhioHSAA Boys' State Finals. And since this game was played at Elyria (Ohio) Elyria Central Catholic H.S. it was obviously a regular season game played earlier in the season.

2) Since I do not know who the opponent is I cannot determine when the game was played.

3) I do not know what league/conference Elyria C.C.H.S. plays in either.

4) I have some friends in the Cleveland area who might be able to provide more information regarding this incident. But from the video it appears that the game officials were on top of the play and took care of business.

MTD, Sr.