Center comes out of area to make call (Video)
 

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Peace

I do very little 3-man, but even I know that is not his PCA, AND it happened right in front of the L....I would trust the Lead's no-call here if I was C.

I don't mind the call. It was correct. It would have been better for the trail to get it.

Without a monitor, I would not put time back on the clock.

If you are aware of the clock at that time of the game, you should know where the clock is on any whistle. It was obvious the call came before the clock ran out. At the college level without a monitor, that is something that would get you in trouble if you allowed the time to just run out in that very situation.

Peace

My apologies. I should have been more clear. In a high school game, no monitor, not worrying if I am going to get into trouble, I am not putting time back on the clock.

Let me be clear as well. It would not have mattered to me what level the game was without a monitor. I would have treated it the same. If I know a foul is before the horn, I am putting time back on the clock. It might not have been that accurate, but it would have been something.

Peace

There is about 0.5 seconds left when there is a whistle. How do you decide if there is 0.5 or 0.3 seconds without a replay device?

In my opinion I think that the C had the best look at this play. The foul was from behind and high.

MTD, Sr

First of all, I loved the get. L is right on top of it (maybe he could have been a little wider but that’s a different discussion), and he’s assessing body contact on the drive and correctly not calling that contact. Meanwhile up top there’s shooting arm contact...probably twice actually. That’s a great time for a secondary whistle. Roy saw it...he knew; he had the same look as C. Hoped he had caught a break and then the late whistle came.

As for the time, I agree the foul came around 1.6, but the signal was around 0.3. I thought you had to go with the signal, but maybe I’m wrong?

In an NFHS game, with that much of a gap between horn and whistle where everyone in the gym knows there should still be some time, hopefully I actually saw something on the clock to educate me. If not, that’s what I tell the table anyway. I always use odd numbers because they’re less suspicious. In this case, 0.3 or 0.5 sounds about right. =) If it’s more bang bang whistle and horn, I follow the NFHS guidance of putting no time back and shooting the FTs with the lane clear.


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Easy you look at the clock when the whistle was blown and you know what that time was. If anything you know there is a gap between the whistle and the horn. I know for me I constantly watch the clock. Have to in shot clock games and do in high school games to know things are being done correctly.

Peace

Correct call by the C. Lead was straight lined by both plyers' body position, and the offensive player turned towards C, so C would have a better look than T. I would put 1.5 back on the clock, because that is when the foul was called.

Agree. You have to have a sense of time here. Always have a count in your head as the time approaches 0. You really must put time back. To not do so because there is no monitor is not a good reason.

The signal comes with approximately 0.5 seconds. By the time I look at the clock, because I didn't bail on the play, it will be 0.00.

OK. The foul took place before the clock ran out. I am putting something on the clock in that situation. I am not shooting FTs with zeros on the clock and no one on the lane.

Peace

Totally hypothetical situation.

No official count (no one had a closely guarded count). No look at the clock with time showing (the whistle was so close to the buzzer that it was impossible). No replay device. How do you decide how much time to put up?

Again I think you are looking for the perfect answer. I will tell you that I personally am very aware of the clock, especially at the end of a quarter or half. I am putting something on the clock. It would all depend on what look I get at the clock in that situation or if I am the calling official or not. But in this case, the foul took place clearly before the half was over. It might be a second or a little less, but I am putting time on the clock.

peace

I am not looking for a perfect answer. I understand there are many factors to be considered. An acceptable outcome, depending on these many factors, is to not put time back on the clock.

You speak as though you had no partner(s) who could back you up. If I’m off ball in this situation and hear a whistle, I immediately look at the clock. Almost reflexively.


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NFHS or NCAA w/o monitor and no automatic timing? You don’t. Shoot the FTs with the lane cleared. But per your hypothetical, this is when whistle/horn are bang bang. Research shows the timer’s OODA loop is about 0.24 seconds to react and push the button. If the gap was clearly longer than this, you reasonably have to put some time back on.


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You know of any research on how much time it takes an official to hear the whistle, process what just happened, and look at the clock to note the time?

I am seriously not going to argue with a partner over this. Just giving my thoughts based on the original play. They had a monitor. Without it, I would have a hard time knowing whether to put up .24, .3 or .5 seconds. Seems kind of arbitrary.

You count it in your head, every time. An official count is not needed. Then, you have knowledge of how much time to put on, every time.

If you mentally do the standard count 1-Miss-is-sip-pi, 2-Miss-is-sip-pi, etc....you get resolution to 0.2 seconds since it is 5 syllables. If you do one-thou-sand-one, one-thou-sand-two, you get 0.25 seconds of resolution.

The rule doesn't require accuracy in the time, just definitive knowledge....any count you have is considered definitive, even it is isn't accurate.

NCAAW -- Monitor. Put the time on the clock at the time of the WHISTLE. About .6 or .4

NCAAW -- No monitor (and no specific knowledge). Let time expire. This was not a timing error. The foul occurred so close to the end of the period, that timer didn't have a chance to stop the clock.

I would treat FED the same was as NCAAW, no monitor.