Throw in after TO
 

This is a three person Varsity game. Late 2nd half. I am lead table side, Team A scores a 3 and immediately request a time out. Coming out of T/O, I am naturally the new Trail table side. Team A is setting up for full court pressure. I indicate to B1 that she has the right to run the end line. Because of the pressure, I always hand the ball to the player. Just before I hand ball to B1, Coach of team B wants B1 to cross over to the opposite side and asks for me to bounce pass across the lane. Is this procedure ok? Should I have gone opposite table to make this happen? Doing so would make my two partners move, besides, that was not my original position before the timeout. Any feedback and references are greatly appreciated.

I would recommend adjusting your practice of handing the ball every time in this scenario. I always bounce the ball on a sideline or a backcourt endline throw-in, and if you did, then the player can just go over there if that is what the coach wants without forcing the rotation.

Couple things you can do here:

1. Force girl to start inbound on your side of the basket, just tell her to run across the lane as it only takes a second anyway.

2. Move to the other side of the lane and reposition the crew.

3. Bounce the ball across the lane to where the girl is starting. Not really allowed by strict NFHS mechanics but they use it in the NBA with no problems. Key is to make sure C is back at the FTLE or even lower helping out with the press.

Best option is prob re-positioning the crew to the other side. If they are starting on that side then perhaps they are more likely to throw it to that side, and you probably don't want C covering that all by himself.

However this isn't really a problem as Trail can come across the lane in the back court to help out with the trap, and then come back once the danger is clear.

I had this come up some nearly 20 years ago. The coach insisted I must put the ball on the side they request and it was immediately after a FT and a substitution. Well, that is not what I did and would have at the time and even now would be confusing. They have the entire end line. If they cannot figure that is not my problem. And no, I am not bouncing the ball across the lane. Not allowed at any level I work and not even allowed to bounce the ball at the high school level I work (state does not allow) and the NCAA level. if they want something else, they better let that be known early and I might move everyone around, but not if we are already set up. We might set up to put us in the best position.

Peace

We are allowed to bounce the ball across the lane in NCAA-Men's.

As for accommodating the throw-in location, I do it. In fact, when I'm the administrating official, I'll often ask the team which side they want to start. To each his own.

Had it happen last night. Exact same scenario. Right before partner handed player the ball the moved to other side. He bounced it across. Didn't cause an issue.

This is what I did, I ended up bouncing it, she wasn't quite all the way across, coach unhappy with me. Next time I'm just going to reposition crew.

This is the proper way to handle it. I agree with the above poster.

I’ll add a couple of comments for others reading this thread.
The team is allowed BY RULE to inbound from anywhere behind the end line. The thrower may start in any location desired. There is no rule requiring a particular starting position. It is unfair to make the inbounder start on one side and use part of the 5-seconds to run to another location. In fact, the team may have more than one team member out of bounds at the beginning of such a throw-in. If they opt to do that think about to which player an official would administer the ball!
All of this should be the throwing team’s option. The rules of the game are not written for the convenience of the officials. Move!

Defensive Team ...
 

That's great for the offensive team, what about the defensive team? During the timeout the defensive coach sticks his head out of the huddle and asks, "Where's the ball?", your partner points to you with the ball, the coach goes back into his huddle and sets up his defense accordingly. After the timeout the offensive team now asks for a different throwin location.

Is that fair to the defensive team?

Mechanics teach us to always stand with the ball at the after timeout throwin location, there's a reason for this mechanic, so that both teams know where the ball will be administered to the inbounder.

We've discussed this before. Can anybody find it?

My opinion. Officials should stay in the same positions as before the timeout, but it's just my opinion, don't have a rule, or caseplay to back it up.

I'm not a big fan of bouncing the ball across the lane, never allowed by IAABO mechanics.

I have to agree with Billy here. I am not a fan of moving at the last minute. If you ask me beforehand to put the ball on one side of the other, at least I can inform my partners. Otherwise, I am staying where we were at the end of the play and before the timeout.

And what if it is seconds? Now I am setting up in a way that I might want to have the Center opposite because the last second shot might be easier to call in that coverage. If I go to the other side, now we have other issues.

Unless there is a mandate or some clarification, I am not going to hand the ball to the other side. Again, rarely asked for in my experience and the one time it was asked of me, the coach wanted us to move right after a FT and substitution. Never heard the request before and never since. Just not what we should be doing IMO.

Peace

The answer to the coach should be “along the end line” or “they have the entire end line, coach.”

Stand With The Ball ...
 

Fair point. But both teams deserve to know during the timeout, not after the timeout, where the ball will be handed or bounced in. That's why mechanics dictate that we stand on that spot with the ball.

Once the ball is handed or bounced, the offensive team can go anywhere along the endline that it wants to go.

What spot? The throw-in spot? There is no throw-in spot. The throw-in is from anywhere along the end line. The throw in starts when the ball is handed to the thrower or caught by the thrower if it is bounced. The thrower should be allowed to start the throw-in where he chooses. It is up to the official to get him the ball.

Unless your name is Heisenberg, you're going to give them the ball at a spot. If they want to move, they can certainly do so but I don't think you can give them the ball anywhere but a spot.

Just like after an uninterrupted made basket, the ball is where it is. They can't demand to have someone give it to them elsewhere. If I'm handing it to them, they're coming to the side of the basket I'm on. Then, they can make the throw from wherever they wish.

Hits The Spot ...
 

I don't have a rule or caseplay contrary to your statement. But in the mechanics manual there is a reason why we stand with the ball at the spot where we will hand or bounce it to the inbounder.

That's the spot I'm talking about.

Agree.

Or, maybe we could run back and forth with the player along the endline and give the ball to them when they ask for it? That will certainly confuse the defense.

Administering Spot ...
 

True. But there has to be an administering spot.

I'm not running back and forth with the player along the endline and giving the ball to them when they ask for it.

Nor am I asking where the inbounder wants the ball, potentially requiring me to move around the inbounder (boxing in) and requiring my partner to switch sides.

I'm pointing to an administering spot where they should be to initially accept the ball from me (my partner and I in the same position as before the timeout), and then I'm vocally stating and signalling "Run the endline" before subsequently bouncing (or handing) the ball to the inbounder.

You dug up a dormant thread just to say this? A point that you and others already made.

Lazarus Raising ...
 

No, I dug it up in its entirety to add to a much more recent (and very slightly similar) "where on the endline" thread that I posted to today. Only then did I decide to tack on a new post to the two-plus year old thread.

If you read them out of order, the context may seem confusing, and I can understand your concern for this Lazarus-like raising.

So you couldn't let us decide to click on the link in the more recent thread? You had to add a comment to the dormant thread that added no more information?

You said this in January 2019: "Fair point. But both teams deserve to know during the timeout, not after the timeout, where the ball will be handed or bounced in. That's why mechanics dictate that we stand on that spot with the ball.

Once the ball is handed or bounced, the offensive team can go anywhere along the endline that it wants to go. "

Geez, quit always trying to suck others into your boredom.

Administration Spot ...
 

New post wasn't added to encourage clicks, but to better respond to just another ref's questions of, "What spot? The throw-in spot?" after I came up with some new verbiage, "administration spot".

I don't see the phrase "administration spot" in any earlier posts in that very old thread, so contrary to Raymond's post, there actually is added information.

Only took me two-plus years to come up with that new verbiage.

Administration Spot © 2021 BillyMac

Lazarus-Like Raising ...
 

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.C...=0&w=300&h=300

While researching a different topic (free throw whistle after timeout) in the current IAABO (not the NFHS) mechanics manual, I came across this: Officials do not switch positions after a timeout.

While it most certainly refers to the basketball official's definition of "switch" (as in lead and trail switch after a foul is called), maybe it can also mean the generic definition of "switch" (as in positions are not to be changed and positions are to be as prior to the timeout being granted (italicized words used to be in the IAABO mechanics manual, but are no longer there).

Yeah, I know, it's a stretch.

Is there anything in the NFHS mechanics manual regarding where to administer a run the endline throwin after a timeout where the inbounder (or coach) wants the ball at a location that is different from the location before the timeout? Especially where it would involve officials moving from their positions prior to the timeout?

Where's Waldo ???
 

Just realized that this is more complex than I thought. Seems easy enough (common sense) in a real game (thank God), but becomes more complex when one tries to find guidelines in the mechanics manual.

Team B scores. New Trail, is tableside. Team A player picks up the ball and steps out of bounds opposite tableside, halfway between the lane line and the sideline. Team A requests and is granted a timeout.

Where is the "administration spot"? New Trail's tableside location on the endline? Or opposite tableside, halfway between the lane line and the sideline?

Does the length (thirty or sixty) of the timeout matter? Or anywhere on the endlne as requested (at anytime before, during, or after the timeout) by the inbounder (or coach)?

Same situation, but instead of Team A player picking up the ball and stepping out of bounds, the ball has just passed through the basket and timeout is requested and granted (dead ball) to either team.

Where is the "administration spot"? New Trail's tableside location on the endline? Does the length (thirty or sixty) of the timeout matter? Or anywhere on the endlne as requested (at anytime before, during, or after the timeout) by the inbounder (or coach)?

Any guideline on this in the NFHS (or IAABO) mechanics manual?

Basket Line ...
 

In a real game, using common sense, if I'm the new Trail, I will set myself up depending on the the timeout position of my partner.

If he's tableside for a thirty second timeout, I will be ready to administer on the endline opposite tableside. If he's opposite tableside for a sixty second timeout, I will be ready to administer on the endline tableside.

Keeps my partner (on the jump ball circle) from having to cross the basket line.

No citations for this, never instructed to do this, it's just me.

I might have to try that sometime. But for now, I'm fortunate to be able to work in crews of three; one of the other two is always crossing the basketline at the end of a timeout.

Braggart, Show Off ...
 

Shut up.

https://live.staticflickr.com/3775/1...8029f778_m.jpg

Sorry, BillyMac, but with varsity @ just $59/ea. and JV @ $48/ea., I'm happy to be joined by a Center Official.

https://welcomesignproject.files.wor...pg&w=300&h=300

Connecticut, Land Of Steady Habits ...
 

The few three person games we have here in Connecticut are almost all in the two richest local boards (near New York City), getting: varsity fee: $100.07; sub varsity fee: $64.93; same fees as two person games for the entire state. The other four local boards (in poorer parts of the state, both urban and rural), with few, or no, three person games, would consider reducing fees to encourage the use of more three person crews, but the rich guys down in the southwest corner (not my little corner) will not even consider that suggestion (would you) and fees are set statewide, not by local boards.

That's one reason (but not the only reason) why there are so few three person games in Connecticut, our urban and rural school systems can't afford three multiplied by $100.07 (or $64.93), and the rich guys in the New York City suburbs don't want their fees reduced for three person crews.

Not a surprise
 

I was in Central Mass through the 2014-15 season (another 'land of the crew of 2,' except for the state tournament. They also sets their rates too, V:$87 this season, and now I see that MIAA added a section on rates for using three officials (85% of the two-person crew rate). Looks like that'd be about $53 more dollars for the host for adding a third crew member. I wouldn't expect to see that happening very often (but I admit, my information is outdated).

Look For The Union Label ...
 

My local board would jump all over that idea, but the two rich local boards downstate definitely wouldn't go for it (why would they), and the other three local boards don't care to get involved in a civil war.