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-   -   Foul, then double technical (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104290-foul-then-double-technical.html)

Coach Bill Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:43pm

Foul, then double technical
 
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NCAA Men's basketball rules. Following a foul on Norfolk St (Green), a double technical foul is called on a player from each team for taunting. Coppin (yellow) is in the double bonus. The fouled player from Coppin shoots two free throws with the lane cleared. Then, the officials go to the possession arrow to determine possession. Norfolk St has the arrow and gets possession and inbounds the ball from the division line. Was all this administered correctly?

Raymond Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:54pm

Point of interruption should have been the loose ball foul against Norfolk State. So Coppin State should have shot their free throws with players along the line.

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Nevadaref Sun Jan 13, 2019 03:49am

Zero chance that this was administered correctly. Sad.

crosscountry55 Sun Jan 13, 2019 08:33am

Yeah, as I’m watching this, I keep thinking, “the hell?”

POI is a simple concept often overthought in the heat of the moment. But a D1 game? Not a good look.

In fairness, if they realized after the throws that players should have been in the lane, then the arrow is the right way to resolve the fact that there wasn’t a proper rebounding opportunity. But even then, the spot should NOT have been at the division line.


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Raymond Sun Jan 13, 2019 09:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1028674)
Yeah, as I’m watching this, I keep thinking, “the hell?”

POI is a simple concept often overthought in the heat of the moment. But a D1 game? Not a good look.

In fairness, if they realized after the throws that players should have been in the lane, then the arrow is the right way to resolve the fact that there wasn’t a proper rebounding opportunity. But even then, the spot should NOT have been at the division line.


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If they realized after the free throws that they should have went to point of interruption, then Norfolk State should take the ball out anywhere along did end line if the second free throw was made. If the second free throw was missed, then I would go to the AP arrow with a throw-in nearest the spot of the original loose ball foul.

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crosscountry55 Sun Jan 13, 2019 09:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1028675)
If they realized after the free throws that they should have went to point of interruption, then Norfolk State should take the ball out anywhere along did end line if the second free throw was made. If the second free throw was missed, then I would go to the AP arrow with a throw-in nearest the spot of the original loose ball foul.

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Good point about had the final FT been successful. Not sure I agree with the arrow spot had it not been, however. If the rebounding that wasn’t permitted to occur would have taken place near the end line, why wouldn’t that be the spot?

Raymond Sun Jan 13, 2019 09:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1028676)
Good point about had the final FT been successful. Not sure I agree with the arrow spot had it not been, however. If the rebounding that wasn’t permitted to occur would have taken place near the end line, why wouldn’t that be the spot?

There's no guarantee that possession occurs within the paint following a missed free throw. If my crew screws up and we need to go to the AP in order to resume play, then I'm going to the ball location before everything got messed up.

But if anybody has a ruling or case play that's on point, I'm easily swayed.

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BigCat Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1028677)
There's no guarantee that possession occurs within the paint following a missed free throw. If my crew screws up and we need to go to the AP in order to resume play, then I'm going to the ball location before everything got messed up.

But if anybody has a ruling or case play that's on point, I'm easily swayed.

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If FT is missed (no obvious point of interruption) the AP throwin then goes closest place ball located. End line spot throw in. There are cases in correctable error and FT sections. NFHS at least. 2.10.1e. College would seem be same.

Camron Rust Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1028677)
There's no guarantee that possession occurs within the paint following a missed free throw. If my crew screws up and we need to go to the AP in order to resume play, then I'm going to the ball location before everything got messed up.

But if anybody has a ruling or case play that's on point, I'm easily swayed.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 1028680)
If FT is missed (no obvious point of interruption) the AP throwin then goes closest place ball located. End line spot throw in. There are cases in correctable error and FT sections. NFHS at least. 2.10.1e. College would seem be same.

Agree. I going nearest the location of the ball when the ball became dead after the final FT....which is on the endline.

crosscountry55 Sun Jan 13, 2019 01:14pm

Foul, then double technical
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1028691)
Agree. I going nearest the location of the ball when the ball became dead after the final FT....which is on the endline.



That’s what I was thinking. Because the location of the original foul (first part of the false double) really bears no connection to the fact that the ball became dead following a free throw when it wasn’t supposed to due to an officials’ error. That entails that the location of the error and where the ball became dead at that point matters, which has nothing to do with any foul location.

Great discussion. This is two POI incidences within the same stopped clock interval. That’s what makes it weird.


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