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-   -   Block or PC? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104208-block-pc.html)

thumpferee Tue Dec 18, 2018 08:47am

Block or PC?
 
http://app.krossover.com/g/1153z
Or
https://app.krossover.com/g/1153z
@ 40:50

NM. I can't get video to upload.

frezer11 Tue Dec 18, 2018 08:59am

I can't help but laugh at your post that says, "NM, I can't get the video to upload," followed by your tagline of, "A picture is worth a thousand words." Truer words never spoken!

thumpferee Tue Dec 18, 2018 09:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by frezer11 (Post 1027352)
I can't help but laugh at your post that says, "NM, I can't get the video to upload," followed by your tagline of, "A picture is worth a thousand words." Truer words never spoken!

Lol. Look again

deecee Tue Dec 18, 2018 09:17am

Block then 2 sets of double T's

1 on the 2 involved in the original call
1 on the tall and short guy

I know they went PC probably because the armbar extended but that's a normal reaction when a defender just runs into you like that.

bob jenkins Tue Dec 18, 2018 09:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1027355)
Block then 2 sets of double T's

1 on the 2 involved in the original call
1 on the tall and short guy

I know they went PC probably because the armbar extended but that's a normal reaction when a defender just runs into you like that.

Block, but I only have two T's -- the original blue player, then the white player who rushes in to "help" his teammate

deecee Tue Dec 18, 2018 09:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1027356)
Block, but I only have two T's -- the original blue player, then the white player who rushes in to "help" his teammate

Bob you don't think the square up of tall and short in that type of environment was T worthy? Also a guess, but they weren't talking about the weather.

jeremy341a Tue Dec 18, 2018 09:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1027358)
Bob you don't think the square up of tall and short in that type of environment was T worthy? Also a guess, but they weren't talking about the weather.


I think it is most definitely T worthy. I can't really think of a good reason why it wouldn't be.

Pantherdreams Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:09am

I'm not going to watch the rest of the game to get context but I am assuming based on the reaction to the forearm that things have been building in this game. Using my FIBA vernacular:

Step 1 - Block on defender
Step 2 - Unsportsmanlike on offensive player for shove.
Step 3 - Double Tech's on the original offenders
Step 4 - Double Tech's on on the smash brothers squaring off up stage.

bob jenkins Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1027358)
Bob you don't think the square up of tall and short in that type of environment was T worthy? Also a guess, but they weren't talking about the weather.

I think white "tall" gets a T here. I'm not sure blue "short" gets another for any physical actions / reactions.

Of course, if words are exchanged, that might lead to a T.

ballgame99 Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:28am

Block 100%.

Then 2 sets of double Ts. And what to make of the kid waiving his arms inciting the crowd? Not sure if that is something to penalize, but I don't like it.

Edit to add: They ejected the kid that got fouled in the first place!? I assume they ejected the kid that did the fouling too? How 10 Blue gets out of that without a tech is interesting.

thumpferee Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballgame99 (Post 1027366)
Block 100%.

Then 2 sets of double Ts. And what to make of the kid waiving his arms inciting the crowd? Not sure if that is something to penalize, but I don't like it.

Edit to add: They ejected the kid that got fouled in the first place!? I assume they ejected the kid that did the fouling too? How 10 Blue gets out of that without a tech is interesting.

Correct! The two players involved in the original play were assessed flagrant T's.
I would have been a lil more lenient.

I had someone tell me they would shoot the FT's for bothe since they weren't simultaneous techs. Is there a ruling that would justify that?

Also, I watched the game and there was no other situations that warranted the reactions shown. Actually it was kinda boring and unemotional. Until then.

deecee Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thumpferee (Post 1027372)
Correct! The two players involved in the original play were assessed flagrant T's.
I would have been a lil more lenient.

I had someone tell me they would shoot the FT's for bothe since they weren't simultaneous techs. Is there a ruling that would justify that?

Also, I watched the game and there was no other situations that warranted the reactions shown. Actually it was kinda boring and unemotional. Until then.

If you want to show how "clever" you can be with the rules then sure...Otherwise for most of us offset and move on.

#olderthanilook Tue Dec 18, 2018 01:05pm

A lot going on here. Here's what I have with the luxury of watching it a half dozen times on replay:

Blue 32 - blocking foul (first contact, before W21's extended arm)
Blue 32 - flagrant tech for fighting
White 21 - flagrant tech for fighting
White 24 - technical foul - unsporting (clapping at opponent, inciting the crowd)
Blue 10 - flagrant technical - fighting
White 23 - unsure. I can't see his mouth moving, his arms stay straight down and his side and his body language is hard to interpret

From there...wow....

Shoot FTs if White is in team bonus
Flagrant T's B32/W21 offset - no FTs
Blue - shoot FTs for W24 unsporting tech foul
White - shoot FTs for B10 flagrant tech foul
White ball at mid court after FTs
Both coaches retain coaching box privileges since no bench personnel are involved in the festivities???

Am I close?

deecee Tue Dec 18, 2018 03:09pm

I wouldn’t T the kid for pumping up the crowd from what I saw and I, personally, don’t consider the shoves fighting.

Camron Rust Wed Dec 19, 2018 04:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1027374)
If you want to show how "clever" you can be with the rules then sure...Otherwise for most of us offset and move on.

Even if you were clever with the rules, you still shouldn't shoot since the rules say "approximately". That is approximate to anyone that is reasonable.

Camron Rust Wed Dec 19, 2018 04:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1027404)
I wouldn’t T the kid for pumping up the crowd from what I saw and I, personally, don’t consider the shoves fighting.

I see a bunch of T's but no "fighting". Without hearing white 23, I don't have anything on him. All we can tell for sure is he got shoved and that isn't enough to say he was guilty of anything.

deecee Wed Dec 19, 2018 07:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1027422)
Even if you were clever with the rules, you still shouldn't shoot since the rules say "approximately". That is approximate to anyone that is reasonable.

That's why I put clever in quotes (should have used blue font).

griblets Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1027356)
Block, but I only have two T's -- the original blue player, then the white player who rushes in to "help" his teammate

What about the unnecessarily forceful arm by W21? I'm not opposed to PC foul, possibly even intentional.

What about B10 shoving W23 (player "helping" his teammate)?

I'd likely have two sets of double T's.

And then I'd hope we T W24 for inciting the crowd as he walks back to the bench.

Camron Rust Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1027424)
That's why I put clever in quotes (should have used blue font).

I understood that. It was clear. But I have heard some really argue for shooting because they were not at at the same instant....and I've heard it more than once. So, I figured it was a good idea to make sure no one mistook your sarcasm for a suggestion.

bucky Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:52pm

Although hardly noticeable/applicable, 3 white does not initially report properly and enters the court. His teammate leaves the court. Later, they do it all over again.

Given the context, I do not have any ejections. Looks like a bunch of offsetting stuff. Get coaches together, explain, and try to get them onboard with keeping everyone calm the rest of the game. Start from where it left off which was a blocking foul.

JRutledge Wed Dec 19, 2018 01:39pm

I do not like how the officials handled this at all. This was very poorly handled and many dead ball situations where players are "pumping up the crowd" and a player walks into the player and it is like the officials have no idea what is going on. They do not take control of the floor where players are going. And if I was there would have likely been a fighting situation and at least get rid of the kid in blue that "overreacted" to the situation.

I did not see the rest of the video, but it appears that more could have easily escalated in this game.

Peace


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