Coaches Biggest Problem With New Rules ...

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by SC Official

A lot of states don't have "associations" or "boards" dishing out assignments. If a conference assigner gets annoyed with someone, (s)he's free to not use him/her.

We don't even have conference assigners. Each individual school schedules the officials they want.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Given your history of gloating about how "thick" your skin is and how few T's you call, you shouldn't be surprised that you don't get the respect on this forum that you think you should. Some of the best officials I know issue the most T's. Just look at Scott Foster.

I can imagine you're the official that laughs with the coach the whole game and makes everyone's job harder by not handling business.

Implying that officials who issue more T's than you and have a lower threshold for BS have "thin skin," "rabbit ears," "want to be seen," or any other fanboy-speak does make you a part of the problem, whether you like it or not. Have you ever considered that maybe your threshold is abnormally high? Doubt it.

I never said there is a certain level of respect I deserve or am looking for. I just don't equate handing out Ts to being a good official. Great officials do hand out Ts, but that's not the measuring stick of being a great official. Sometimes it means you are looking to get noticed. I think we have all worked with guys like that.

I've handed out a few now, but it took a long time to get in that situation. As I said before, it sounds like the adults/coaches in your various parts of the country have more problems with behavior than what I experience.

I don't laugh with coaches. I pretty much ignore them the whole game and officiate the game. I don't care what they have to say, but if something really needs an explanation, they get it quickly and without holding up the game. I can't speak for any of my partners, but I don't believe I'm making anything harder for anybody. I have rarely had a partner that feels the need to "handle business". Once again, handling business does not necessarily equate to handing out Ts. Necessary tool sometimes, but not most of the time.

My threshold must be just fine as my "handling of business" falls right in line with the other officials. Have you ever considered that your threshold is abnormally low? I doubt it. Do you think you are gaining respect by handing out Ts? Sometimes it's necessary, but it's not common in my area. It must be much more common in your area.

[Rich]

I think there are problems with giving away what's traditionally a paid gig.

I've worked hard to get officiating pay up in my neck of the woods. Even with scrimmages (this applies to basketball and football), I tell schools that want me to find officials that the cost is a game fee, at minimum. After a few years, that's expected now.

So someone comes along and says "I'll do it for free" and the school is happy. Except there's now an expectation by that school the next season when that person who gave the freebie isn't available anymore. Or that school now wants to give a quid pro quo to those people and have them work their in-season games.

I have held camps over scrimmages and I gave the schools a very small discount to let me do so. Money raised went into a scholarship fund, but I never once thought to offer up the camp as free officiating.

I actually think it's worse for you in SD if there is no league/conference/association assigner. Work for free then maybe the school will throw some extra games at you. At best, it's troubling. At worse, it's unethical.

It's also up to you. But I won't assign anyone if a place isn't willing to pay the prevailing rate.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

We don't have a "Game Assignment Fee Late Payment Fee" Not sure I understand what that is.

At the end of the season we pay 7% of our earnings to the board. It's due by early April. If it's late there's a $50 late fee, plus you lose assignments until mid-January. If it later than early May, you pay the $50 and lose all assignments the following year.

Like I said, we've got a few knuckleheads on our local board.

Originally Posted by SD Referee

We don't tack on late payment for fines fees.

You, obviously, don't have any knuckleheads in your association.

We've got 325 guys on our local board, the treasurer's job would be impossible to do without the threat of steep late fees. One doesn't ignore $50 fines. That isn't pocket change for most. And yet, we have guys who get fined every year. Forgetful, poor bookkeeping, lack of attention to detail, can't read a calendar, etc.

We had a guy a few years ago that lost his entire season schedule because he forgot to attend a mandatory new rules meeting (several sites offered, several dates offered).

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

At the end of the season we pay 7% of our earnings to the board. It's due by early April. If it's late there's a $50 late fee, plus you lose assignments until mid-January. If it later than early May, you pay the $50 and lose all assignments the following year.

Like I said, we've got a few knuckleheads on our local board.



You, obviously, don't have any knuckleheads in your association.

We've got 325 guys on our local board, the treasurer's job would be impossible to do without the threat of steep late fees. One doesn't ignore $50 fines. That isn't pocket change for most. And yet, we have guys who get fined every year. Forgetful, poor bookkeeping, lack of attention to detail, can't read a calendar, etc.

We had a guy a few years ago that lost his entire season schedule because he forgot to attend a mandatory new rules meeting (several sites offered, several dates offered).

I agree that when you are in charge of collecting fees from 325 you do need some threat of late fees. Thanks for all of the information and conversation!

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As much as I love officiating, with some exceptions, I wouldn't do it for free.

Fees, traffic, fines, dues, traffic, insurance, traffic, travel, traffic, meetings, traffic, camps, traffic, clinics, traffic, uniforms, traffic, shoes, traffic, equipment bags.

And do not forget the traffic fines. Ouch!

[ilyazhito]

Different associations in and around the DC area do things differently. Most have paid scrimmages with the normal number of officials for the appropriate level (2 for subvarsity, 3 for varsity) showing up. Those that have paid scrimmages (JUSO, MBOA, Board 12, Board 134) do not pay a full game fee.

Cardinal Basketball Officials Association does not pay for scrimmages, but they assign extra officials to scrimmages (3 for a JV scrimmage and 4 for a varsity scrimmage) to allow the officials to rotate, to let JV officials practice 3-person mechanics in extra quarters, and to evaluate transfer officials.

JUSO is unusual, because they have both paid scrimmages and classes combined with on-court training sessions. To my knowledge, no other association in the DC area conducts regular on-court training for officials.

To get back to the OP, most coaches who have problems with the new rules do so because they don't read the rules, the rules are not very relevant (ball color and shape), or the rules are confusing (the backcourt exception

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... most coaches ... the rules are not very relevant ...

Three scrimmages so far, two girls. In both girls scrimmages the coaches and girls complained about the waistband interpretation "not having to do with the game".

[LRZ]

In a rare outbreak of common sense, PIAA just issued the following about rolled waistbands:

"The PIAA Interpretation on rolled shorts now clarifies that rolled shorts are permissible provided they do not reveal excess logos or dangling strings. Rolled shorts that reveal multiple logos or a dangling string should be treated in a similar fashion as an untucked shirt. A player wearing shorts with multiple logos shall be directed to leave the game as in 3-3-4. There is no penalty for rolled shorts provided they have a total of one (1) manufacturers logo on the garment and are worn above the hips."

I must say, however, that I have yet to see a kid wearing his/her shorts below the hips.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by LRZ

I must say, however, that I have yet to see a kid wearing his/her shorts below the hips.

Obviously, you didn't officiate in the late 1980's.

[Kansas Ref]

Kansas and Missouri have allowed rolled waistbands, also I've seen some players who have actually cut out/off the Russell or other Mfg. logo.

[DRJ1960]

Just received new email from assignor backtracking on rolled waistbands.... NC now supposed to rigidly enforce the "as designed" rule.... no rolling (today, anyway).

[bob jenkins]

Update from IL: Allow the shorts to be rolled, as long as only one (or zero) logo appears on the shorts, including any that show in the rolled waistband. Essentially the NCAAW rule. Enforced at Varsity only. Anything goes at sub-varsity.

[MattReferee]

No
Rolled up
Shorts and honestly a GOOD pregame with captains will take care “most”of the time about shorts,jersey
R1- hey captain make sure you inform ALL teammates and coach that our crew will not allow rolled up shorts and have your jerseys tucked in 👌
But ya will have that one that will buck system and thinks rules don’t apply

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MattReferee

No

Rolled up

Shorts and honestly a GOOD pregame with captains will take care “most”of the time about shorts,jersey

R1- hey captain make sure you inform ALL teammates and coach that our crew will not allow rolled up shorts and have your jerseys tucked in

But ya will have that one that will buck system and thinks rules don’t apply

The rules are what your state tells you they are. I assume yours wants no rolled shorts?


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