Shot clock violation
 

Women's college game. Shot goes up and doesn't hit iron and goes off of backboard. Rebound is controlled by opposing players and whistled for a held ball. The shot clock expires while both players are holding the ball. Team who missed the shot has the alternating possession arrow. What should the outcome be?

If you have whistle, then horn, I'm going back to 1 second on the shot clock.

If the opposing team controlled the ball prior to the held ball we have a new 30


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Simple matter of what happened first in the officials’ judgement. If held ball, I agree put one second back. If horn, SC violation.

OP said NCAAW rule set, but I think this ruling would be the same under any rule set involving a SC.

In NCAA, under what pretext, if any, could this be reviewed at a monitor?


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If the opposing team has the ball, you reset the time. I cannot imagine Women's rules are any different than other shot clock rules.

Peace

Because there is a shot clock violation committed by the team entitled to possession, the shot clock violation awards the ball to their opponents. Team B ball with a new shot clock period.

The CCA manual used to have a nice appendix that contained a bunch of plays like this (two or three things happening nearly simultaneously and what happened to possession, game clocks, shot clocks) and how to adjudicate them. It was very handy. I'm sorry they took it out.

does joint possession (i.e. held ball)count as possession by the other team and warrant a reset? Or just if the defensive player gained possession just before the attacking player did? (I'm assuming the latter, but curious if I'm wrong.)

It only counts if the possession arrow favors the opposite team to the one that previously had possession. [Hypothetical Situation]If B possessed the ball before the tie-up, and the official judged that B had gained possession, there would be a reset. [\Hypothetical Situation] However, B never gained independent control of the ball before the tie-up occurred in the OP, so A was the last team with team control. Because there was no change of team control, and the shot did not hit the rim, the shot clock does not reset. Because A had possession of the ball after the shot clock was at 0 (and the horn sounded), the result of this play is a shot clock violation and possession to B with a full reset of the shot clock.

Disproportionate Number Of Shot Clock Questions On The Forum …
 

I have very little experience with shot clocks, Connecticut only uses them in prep school games, and then only at the varsity level.

It seems to me that we get a lot of shot clock questions here on the Forum that may be disproportionate to the number of Forum members that may actually use shot clocks, many Forum members are only high school officials, and many states don't use shot clocks for high school games. And many of the shot clock questions seem to come from otherwise extremely competent officials (as far as I can tell from their Forum postings).

Why so many (relatively speaking) shot clock questions? Are NCAA shot clock rules (and high school shot clock rules where applicable) written in a confusing way? Do these shot clock rules often undergo "minor" changes that may make then confusing from year to year? Are officials not educated properly by their associations? Are shot clock operators not educated properly?

Here in Connecticut I can identify lots of reasons for shot clock questions. I can blame a lack of familiarity for many of our shot clock problems. I haven't had a shot clock in a game since 2016-17, and I never have more than one or two games a season with a shot clock. Shot clock rules are never discussed at our local board meetings, we're given a written shot clock handout every year and that handout is always discussed pregame in our varsity prep school games that require such knowledge (not enough education in my opinion). Of course, I can also blame individual officials (including myself) for not sitting down and memorizing the shot clock rules and fully understanding said rules as well as any other rule of the rule book. And shot clock operators are almost always students, and are often assigned the duty as an afterthought.

But for you guys who work with shot clocks every night, why so many (relatively speaking) questions?

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A majority of the time, shot clock problems are the result of errors committed by the shot clock operator.

I work in Massachusetts, which uses the shot clock at all levels of high school. But I wouldn't say we get a lot more training and insight than you do Billy.

Our "basic" rule book is the same one you use: which is NFHS. So there is zero in there on the shot clock. The MIAA rule on the shot clock, in its entirety is: "The 30-second shot clock will be utilized at all levels in both boys’ and girls’ games."

To further complicate this, the MIAA has two separate instructions: one dated 2006 that is linked from the current MIAA rule book and a different one (prepared by IAABO) dated 2012 and linked from the MIAA web site. I doubt many officials know this or have seen these. The web site also has a 3-page PDF with a bunch of "real world" shot clock situations -- and I suspect even fewer have seen this.

I carry the IAABO instructions in my bag -- but rarely use them in a pre-game. Shot clock situations are brought up at our association meetings -- but usually when an unusual situation arises. I think we can do a better job here. But in reality, most shot clock situations are simple and easy to handle.

Those of us with college experience bring that knowledge and training to our games. But there are always situations that don't fit perfectly in the rule book and we don't have as many resources to fall back upon. But we do discuss them with our board interpreter or with each other.

The NCAA rule book and the CCA mechanics manual are quite clear on the shot clock. But, just like every other rule, there always will be scenarios that are not precisely spelled out in the rule book or manual.

On those rare nights when I have a shot clock issue, I do my best and explain it to the coaches. And that's always been good enough.

I should clarify my answer above. I read the post literally - "controlled by opposing players" - as getting their hands on the ball at approximately the same time, to where you can't distinguish one before the other. In this case, I am putting the shot clock back at 1.

If you deem the other team gained possession before the held ball, then you would have a reset of the shot clock and go to the arrow.

What you can't have is a shot-clock violation, IMO.

Me The Umpire, No Problem ...
 

Every time I get prep school varsity assignment, I hope and pray that my partner is an NCAA official.

Handout ...
 

Here's what we get:

http://www.iaabo6.org/2017/2017PrepRules.pdf

MPSSAA has a card that lists MD public school shot clock rules in detail. It mentions situations when the shot clock does and does not reset, as well as the MD mercy rule (a 35+ point lead by one team after the start of the 3rd quarter). DC has different rules, and those rules are listed on the MBOA website (an invisible 10-second count using the shot clock for boys, and no 10-second count for girls). Private schools that use a shot clock (WCAC Boys, IAC, MAC, ISL, WCAC Girls) use college shot clock rules of the appropriate gender.

Variations Of That Vary By State, League, And Gender ...
 

Now I know why some question certain aspects of the shot clock rules, because there are so many variations that vary by level, state, league, and gender.

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This is the reason why NCAA has changed the shot clock rules recently, to make the rules more consistent (Both men and women now have a 30 second shot clock with a non-visible 10-second count), even though some minor differences remain (20 seconds on kicked/fisted balls +front court fouls for men vs 30 for all fouls and 15 for kicked/fisted balls for women).

Perhaps the high school shot clock states will go the college route and adopt a non-visible 10 second count for both boys and girls, because I never understood why college women did not have a 10 second count while men did, even though both used a shot clock.

Still, the HS shot clock rulings for different situations are the same as the college rulings (except CA, where all resets are the full length).
Thus, I would say that the OP was a shot clock violation, because the last team with control prior to the shot missing the ring had joint possession of the ball when the shot clock horn sounded, was awarded control, and control with an expired shot clock (and no shot prior to the horn) is a shot clock violation. This would be supported by Rule 2-11-7i of the NCAAW rulebook, which says that the shot clock stops without a reset after "a simultaneous held ball... after an unsuccessful try that does not contact the ring or flange and the alternating-possession arrow favors the team whose try was unsuccessful."

Massachusetts also has a full reset for the shot clock. There's a move to change that to match the NCAA rule, but it is at least three years away (because of deadlines and timelines to change the state rules.)

Seriously? I thought that the IAABO states did either 30/15 or 35/15 for their shot clocks (except for private school games, which follow college shot clock rules), but maybe MA is an exception which will cease to become one in the next rules change cycle.

Rule cycle for which organization? Does IAABO have a rule book that addresses the shot clock?

Guardians Of The IAABO Universe ...
 

No it does not. IAABO neither makes rules, nor does it interpret rules, it just educates officials regarding such (IAABO does have its own mechanics manual).

It appears that in IAABO areas that want to use a shot clock, the local board, or state board, has presented its members with guiding principles for shot clocks. I am not aware of any shot clock guidance from IAABO International.

I can speak with authority regarding the evolution of shot clock principles (and other NFHS differences) here in 100% IAABO Connecticut (for our prep school varsity games).

Prep school coaches and athletic doctors tell our IAABO Connecticut State Board what they want regarding NFHS rule differences and the State Board educates officials regarding such.

The prep school coaches and athletic directors tell the officials what to do, not vice versa.

It took us several years to convince prep school coaches and athletic directors that the closely guarded distance for girls (women) had changed from three feet to back six feet.

For almost all prep school coaches and athletic directors, NFHS rule differences are a distant afterthought.

New prep school coaches are often unaware that their teams use special hybrid NFHS/NCAA rules.

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The post above mine was referring to Massachusetts (the MIAA) and their 3-year timeline to change rules.

IAABO International does not have a specific rulebook to address that, but for states that use a shot clock, either their IAABO state Board will have resources with shot clock instructions and situations, or their state association will have the appropriate rules on the website/in the handbook. In my case, I downloaded the MD shot clock rules from the MPSSAA website.

For those IAABO boards outside the US, their members receive manuals with FIBA rules and mechanics, and those manuals include FIBA shot clock rules as part of the rules. If there are any variations to those rules, e.g. for scholastic games, these variations are published on the relevant board's website.

As Billy said, IAABO does not make any rules. The Massachusetts rules are set by the state H.S. association, the MIAA, which changes rules every two years following a long process that includes written proposals, comments, votes, etc. We are in the middle of a cycle that will change rules (for all sports) starting next school year (2019-20), but the deadline for proposing changes has passed and the shot clock reset is not being considered. That's why it is at least three years away.

There is one basketball rules change proposed for next year: doing away with the seat belt rule for coaches who receive a direct or indirect technical foul. Interestingly, this change was recommended by officials and has been approved by the MIAA basketball committee. Many other committees get to weigh in before a final vote is taken in the spring.

IAABO does, indeed, publish national guidance on the shot clock. PDF files with instructions for the shot clock (with and without a reset) are available to board interpreters from IAABO. Only board interpreters have access to that part of the IAABO website that has this information.

While most officials in Massachusetts belong to IAABO. there are several non-IAABO basketball associations that are recognized by the MIAA. Since the MIAA is the rule-making authority, it publishes the rules and guidance. I have seen material from IAABO, NFHS, NCAA and stuff with no attribution -- as well as material written by MIAA staff.