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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 27, 2018, 01:03am
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MPSSAA has a card that lists MD public school shot clock rules in detail. It mentions situations when the shot clock does and does not reset, as well as the MD mercy rule (a 35+ point lead by one team after the start of the 3rd quarter). DC has different rules, and those rules are listed on the MBOA website (an invisible 10-second count using the shot clock for boys, and no 10-second count for girls). Private schools that use a shot clock (WCAC Boys, IAC, MAC, ISL, WCAC Girls) use college shot clock rules of the appropriate gender.

Last edited by ilyazhito; Tue Nov 27, 2018 at 01:07am.
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Old Tue Nov 27, 2018, 12:17pm
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Variations Of That Vary By State, League, And Gender ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
MPSSAA has a card that lists MD public school shot clock rules in detail. It mentions situations when the shot clock does and does not reset, as well as the MD mercy rule (a 35+ point lead by one team after the start of the 3rd quarter). DC has different rules, and those rules are listed on the MBOA website (an invisible 10-second count using the shot clock for boys, and no 10-second count for girls). Private schools that use a shot clock (WCAC Boys, IAC, MAC, ISL, WCAC Girls) use college shot clock rules of the appropriate gender.
Now I know why some question certain aspects of the shot clock rules, because there are so many variations that vary by level, state, league, and gender.

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Old Tue Nov 27, 2018, 03:21pm
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This is the reason why NCAA has changed the shot clock rules recently, to make the rules more consistent (Both men and women now have a 30 second shot clock with a non-visible 10-second count), even though some minor differences remain (20 seconds on kicked/fisted balls +front court fouls for men vs 30 for all fouls and 15 for kicked/fisted balls for women).

Perhaps the high school shot clock states will go the college route and adopt a non-visible 10 second count for both boys and girls, because I never understood why college women did not have a 10 second count while men did, even though both used a shot clock.

Still, the HS shot clock rulings for different situations are the same as the college rulings (except CA, where all resets are the full length).
Thus, I would say that the OP was a shot clock violation, because the last team with control prior to the shot missing the ring had joint possession of the ball when the shot clock horn sounded, was awarded control, and control with an expired shot clock (and no shot prior to the horn) is a shot clock violation. This would be supported by Rule 2-11-7i of the NCAAW rulebook, which says that the shot clock stops without a reset after "a simultaneous held ball... after an unsuccessful try that does not contact the ring or flange and the alternating-possession arrow favors the team whose try was unsuccessful."
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Old Tue Nov 27, 2018, 03:58pm
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Still, the HS shot clock rulings for different situations are the same as the college rulings (except CA, where all resets are the full length)

Massachusetts also has a full reset for the shot clock. There's a move to change that to match the NCAA rule, but it is at least three years away (because of deadlines and timelines to change the state rules.)
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Old Tue Nov 27, 2018, 11:50pm
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Seriously? I thought that the IAABO states did either 30/15 or 35/15 for their shot clocks (except for private school games, which follow college shot clock rules), but maybe MA is an exception which will cease to become one in the next rules change cycle.
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Old Wed Nov 28, 2018, 09:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Seriously? I thought that the IAABO states did either 30/15 or 35/15 for their shot clocks (except for private school games, which follow college shot clock rules), but maybe MA is an exception which will cease to become one in the next rules change cycle.
Rule cycle for which organization? Does IAABO have a rule book that addresses the shot clock?
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Old Wed Nov 28, 2018, 11:16am
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Does IAABO have a rule book that addresses the shot clock?
No it does not. IAABO neither makes rules, nor does it interpret rules, it just educates officials regarding such (IAABO does have its own mechanics manual).

It appears that in IAABO areas that want to use a shot clock, the local board, or state board, has presented its members with guiding principles for shot clocks. I am not aware of any shot clock guidance from IAABO International.

I can speak with authority regarding the evolution of shot clock principles (and other NFHS differences) here in 100% IAABO Connecticut (for our prep school varsity games).

Prep school coaches and athletic doctors tell our IAABO Connecticut State Board what they want regarding NFHS rule differences and the State Board educates officials regarding such.

The prep school coaches and athletic directors tell the officials what to do, not vice versa.

It took us several years to convince prep school coaches and athletic directors that the closely guarded distance for girls (women) had changed from three feet to back six feet.

For almost all prep school coaches and athletic directors, NFHS rule differences are a distant afterthought.

New prep school coaches are often unaware that their teams use special hybrid NFHS/NCAA rules.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Nov 28, 2018 at 12:00pm.
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Old Wed Nov 28, 2018, 01:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Rule cycle for which organization? Does IAABO have a rule book that addresses the shot clock?
The post above mine was referring to Massachusetts (the MIAA) and their 3-year timeline to change rules.

IAABO International does not have a specific rulebook to address that, but for states that use a shot clock, either their IAABO state Board will have resources with shot clock instructions and situations, or their state association will have the appropriate rules on the website/in the handbook. In my case, I downloaded the MD shot clock rules from the MPSSAA website.

For those IAABO boards outside the US, their members receive manuals with FIBA rules and mechanics, and those manuals include FIBA shot clock rules as part of the rules. If there are any variations to those rules, e.g. for scholastic games, these variations are published on the relevant board's website.
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Old Wed Nov 28, 2018, 02:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
The post above mine was referring to Massachusetts (the MIAA) and their 3-year timeline to change rules.

.....

Seriously? I thought that the IAABO states did either 30/15 or 35/15 for their shot clocks (except for private school games, which follow college shot clock rules), but maybe MA is an exception which will cease to become one in the next rules change cycle.
As Billy said, IAABO does not make any rules. The Massachusetts rules are set by the state H.S. association, the MIAA, which changes rules every two years following a long process that includes written proposals, comments, votes, etc. We are in the middle of a cycle that will change rules (for all sports) starting next school year (2019-20), but the deadline for proposing changes has passed and the shot clock reset is not being considered. That's why it is at least three years away.

There is one basketball rules change proposed for next year: doing away with the seat belt rule for coaches who receive a direct or indirect technical foul. Interestingly, this change was recommended by officials and has been approved by the MIAA basketball committee. Many other committees get to weigh in before a final vote is taken in the spring.
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Old Wed Nov 28, 2018, 02:57pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
It appears that in IAABO areas that want to use a shot clock, the local board, or state board, has presented its members with guiding principles for shot clocks. I am not aware of any shot clock guidance from IAABO International.
IAABO does, indeed, publish national guidance on the shot clock. PDF files with instructions for the shot clock (with and without a reset) are available to board interpreters from IAABO. Only board interpreters have access to that part of the IAABO website that has this information.

While most officials in Massachusetts belong to IAABO. there are several non-IAABO basketball associations that are recognized by the MIAA. Since the MIAA is the rule-making authority, it publishes the rules and guidance. I have seen material from IAABO, NFHS, NCAA and stuff with no attribution -- as well as material written by MIAA staff.

Last edited by BayStateRef; Wed Nov 28, 2018 at 03:00pm.
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