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Old Thu Nov 01, 2018, 03:57pm
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Ball [asses over rectangular backboard.

NHSF rules .... I know the ball becomes dead if it passes directly over a rectangular backboard. Is is the same violation if it passes directly over the backboard "from behind". Had this happen in a game just at the final horn in a game that was not close, but got me to thinking. I think this is still a violation but can someone set me straight. The other deal is why is this considered a violation in the first place in either direction. What is the purpose of this rule?
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Old Thu Nov 01, 2018, 04:00pm
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Violation ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbruno View Post
NFHS rules .... I know the ball becomes dead if it passes directly over a rectangular backboard. Is is the same violation if it passes directly over the backboard "from behind".
Either direction, it's a violation.

The front, top, sides, and bottom of the backboard are all in play. The ball cannot legally pass over a rectangular backboard from either direction. The back of a backboard is out of bounds, as well as the supporting structures.
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Old Thu Nov 01, 2018, 04:05pm
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"It Goes In" ...

Larry Bird, Hartford Civic Center, 1986 preseason game against the Houston Rockets:

https://youtu.be/Ebx61XuFGX8

Even if you're not a Celtic fan, like me, you gotta love Johnny Most's call on this play.

And it happened right down the street from me, when the Celtics would play a few games each year at the Hartford Civic Center (now the XL Center).

Those days are over. The XL Center is now a dump (not literally, but almost).
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Nov 01, 2018 at 04:11pm.
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Old Thu Nov 01, 2018, 04:13pm
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And this is something that happens so seldom that a huge number of people, including some officials don't know the rule. Many think that any time the ball touches the top of the board it's out, but if it passes over the top without touching anything (which is not even possible on some goals) it's nothing.
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Old Thu Nov 01, 2018, 04:21pm
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The Big Dipper ...

Throughout the history of the game of basketball, certain players have held enormous physical advantages that completely changed the way the game was played on both offense and defense. These players were so dominant that they caused many rule changes, rule changes that were supposed to reduce the dominance of these gifted players to make their style of play a bit fairer to other players. Most of these rule changes were originally instituted in NCAA, or NBA games, but these changes eventually trickled down to NFHS rules.

Wilt Chamberlain (Kansas 1956-1958, NBA 1959-1973), the seven foot, one inch, 275 pound All-American Kansas Jayhawks center’s impact on the game of basketball was reflected in the fact that he was directly responsible for several rule changes. He’s credited with a rule change regarding inbounding the ball by front court inbounders standing behind the endline underneath their basket. His teammates would routinely inbound the ball by lobbing the ball over the backboard where Chamberlain would catch the lob pass and dunk the ball into the basket for an easy score. In 1956, the NCAA, followed by the NFHS in 1957, ruled that the ball is out of bounds when it passes over a rectangular backboard (in either direction).



Since James Naismith invented the game of basketball and codified its rules in the late nineteenth century players have gotten taller, bigger, stronger, and faster, completely changing the way the game is played on both offense and defense. Rules have evolved over the years to provide equal opportunities between the offense and the defense, and between small players and tall players. That being said, as the game of basketball moves into the future rules must continue to evolve in response to changing player skills and changing team tactics. In the words of Winston Churchill, “To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often".
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 02, 2018 at 12:17pm.
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Old Thu Nov 01, 2018, 08:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Many think that any time the ball touches the top of the board it's out, but if it passes over the top without touching anything (which is not even possible on some goals) it's nothing.
If it passes over the top, it is a violation. (7-1-2b)
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Old Fri Nov 02, 2018, 02:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
If it passes over the top, it is a violation. (7-1-2b)

Correct, but many think otherwise.
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Old Fri Nov 02, 2018, 07:35am
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Oh, sorry, duh, I misread your post!
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Old Fri Nov 02, 2018, 12:15pm
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Odd Situation ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
...a huge number of people, including some officials don't know the rule.
I worked with a multiple state final official a few years ago. Great official. Great mechanics. Great positioning. Great partner. Great game management. Active on the training committee and the evaluation committee. The whole nine yards.

I'm lead and a shot is taken from my partner's primary. Of course, I keep my field of vision down, ignoring the shot, watching for rebounding fouls. I observe the ball come down, hitting the floor inbounds directly under the backboard, while two rebounding opponents simply watch the ball bounce out of bounds. I assume the shot was short, missed "everything", and bounced out of bounds, so I call the out of bounds violation (knowing my partner would correct me if I was wrong, like a shot tipped by the defense) and administer a throwin to the nonshooting team. But I was confused by the behavior of the two rebounding opponents, not reacting in any way, or attempting to get the ball, after bouncing inbounds.

So I ask my partner about the play during the halftime intermission, "What did you see?". She explains that the shot did indeed go over the backboard, but because it didn't hit the top of the backboard, and eventually hit inbounds, there was no violation for over the backboard. I told her that I believed that her interpretation was flawed and we moved on.

She's also an NCAA-W official. Could that have impacted her interpretation? I know more about open heart surgery than I do about NCAA-W rules.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 02, 2018 at 04:56pm.
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Old Fri Nov 02, 2018, 12:29pm
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Havlicek Stole The Ball ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Even if you're not a Celtic fan, like me, you gotta love Johnny Most's call on this play.
Here's my all time favorite Johnny Most call, he's easily identified by is raspy voice.

https://youtu.be/6v0t1aULRa0
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
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Old Fri Nov 02, 2018, 04:05pm
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Being from Boston and a teenager in the 60's I had many years of Johnny Most "high above courtside" being the homers homer of broadcast announcers. The other teams were all full of villians and the Celtics could do no wrong. When they played poorly or were getting outplayed "they just couldn't get it going".
My favorite is the 86 championship against Houston when Ralph Sampson punched Jerry Sichtig. Most's take was... "And Sampson started the whole damn thing, Ralph Sampson is a gutless big guy that picks on the little guys"
Enough said John
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Old Fri Nov 02, 2018, 05:21pm
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The Thrill Of Victory, And The Agony Of Defeat ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbruno View Post
Being from Boston and a teenager in the 60's I had many years of Johnny Most "high above courtside" being the homers homer of broadcast announcers.
You were lucky.

I was also a teenager in the 1960's, a big Celtic fan (loved the team oriented approach, the fast break attack, and Bill Russell was my favorite player), but I lived in the New Haven / Hartford market and only saw them on television on Sunday's ABC Game of the Week.

No cable television back then. No ESPN, TNT, etc. No regional sports networks (I see the Celtics, Red Sox, and Bruins all the time on television today). No internet with streaming games. Most of my Celtics information came from the sports section of the New Haven Register, my subscription to Sports Illustrated, and whatever the antenna on my roof sucked in, ABC's Game of the Week came via WNHC-TV Channel 8, ABC's New Haven / Hartford affiliate.

When the Celtics would play the Knicks we could watch them on WOR-TV Channel 9 out of New York City, but the picture was always fuzzy. Because of the availability of Knicks games on television I actually became a Knicks fan (Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, Dick Barnett, Dave DeBusschere, Bill Bradley), except when they played the Celtics.

Young'uns today don't realize how tough it was for us to see out of town games on television, especially those of us living in a small markets without major league teams.

Unless I wanted to watch the Yankees (WPIX Channel 11) or the Mets (WOR-TV Channel 9) both broadcasting from New York City, both with fuzzy pictures, my favorite show was the national broadcast of the NBC Baseball Game of the Week.

On Saturdays we would watch professional bowling which was a lead-in to ABC's Wide World of Sports. Anybody beside me remember Pete Weber and Earl Anthony?

https://youtu.be/P2AZH4FeGsc
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 02, 2018 at 10:56pm.
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Old Fri Nov 02, 2018, 09:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Anybody beside me remember Pete Weber and Earl Anthony?

https://youtu.be/P2AZH4FeGsc
Pretty sure it was Dick Weber...and I watched Gordon Soli...Pro Wrestling on Saturdays. I think it was WTIC...CBS affiliate out of Hartford
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Old Fri Nov 02, 2018, 10:50pm
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Travelers Insurance Company ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Zebra View Post
Pretty sure it was Dick Weber...and I watched Gordon Soli...Pro Wrestling on Saturdays. I think it was WTIC...CBS affiliate out of Hartford
Pete Weber and his father, Dick, were the first father-and-son combination to ever both earn a title on the PBA Tour.

WTIC is now WFSB, and was and is the CBS affiliate in the Hartford market. WTIC used to be owned by the Travelers Insurance Company, thus TIC.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)
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Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 07:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I worked with a multiple state final official a few years ago. Great official. Great mechanics. Great positioning. Great partner. Great game management. Active on the training committee and the evaluation committee. The whole nine yards.

I'm lead and a shot is taken from my partner's primary. Of course, I keep my field of vision down, ignoring the shot, watching for rebounding fouls. I observe the ball come down, hitting the floor inbounds directly under the backboard, while two rebounding opponents simply watch the ball bounce out of bounds. I assume the shot was short, missed "everything", and bounced out of bounds, so I call the out of bounds violation (knowing my partner would correct me if I was wrong, like a shot tipped by the defense) and administer a throwin to the nonshooting team. But I was confused by the behavior of the two rebounding opponents, not reacting in any way, or attempting to get the ball, after bouncing inbounds.

So I ask my partner about the play during the halftime intermission, "What did you see?". She explains that the shot did indeed go over the backboard, but because it didn't hit the top of the backboard, and eventually hit inbounds, there was no violation for over the backboard. I told her that I believed that her interpretation was flawed and we moved on.

She's also an NCAA-W official. Could that have impacted her interpretation? I know more about open heart surgery than I do about NCAA-W rules.
The NCAAW rule is the same
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