Roll Your Own. NOT.
 

2018,19 Interpretations
SITUATION 9: During warm-ups, the officials notice that some players have rolled the waistband on their shorts. What actions should be taken by the officials, if any, at this time? RULING: During the warm-up period, the referee should notify the coach of the infractions and ask that they be corrected immediately. If the corrections are not made and players attempt to enter the game with rolled waistbands, those players should not be allowed to enter the game prior to correcting the issue. If player(s) in the game have rolled waistband(s), they shall be directed to leave the game and may not re-enter until the next opportunity to substitute. No penalty is involved. The game should not be held-up to allow for the correction. (3-3-5, 3-5-5)

Teenage Girls ...
 

I first became aware of this issue several years ago on the Forum. At the time we didn't have this problem here in Connecticut. That is no longer the case, and it's almost always girls.

It's another fashion issue that some officials will not understand, some won't know about it, some will chose to ignore ("not part of the game"), some will not be observant enough to enforce, and some may enforce.

3-5-5: Equipment and apparel shall not be modified from the original
manufactured state and shall be worn in the manner the manufacturer intended it
to be worn.

3-5-5-A: Uniform pants/skirts shall adhere to the following: Only one visible manufacturer’s logo/trademark/reference is permitted

Ultimately states will do what they want irrespective of this stupid rule and interpretation.

In South Carolina it's been a crapshoot the past few years and enforcement has been largely dependent on whom the R is. Some R's don't allow any rolling. Some allow rolling as long as no extra logos are seen. Some don't care.

The only thing I personally care about is the drawstring being tucked in since fingers, etc. can get caught in it.

I think the "worn as manufacturer intended" nonsense is, well, nonsense.

This has been addressed in our state's preseason clinic for at least 4-5 years now, maybe longer than that. I don't think I've seen anybody sent out of the game yet, but many officials do address in pregame Captains meetings and players are told to fix it during the games.

Fifteen Will Get You Twenty ...
 

This issue has never been addressed in my little corner of Connecticut, even though we're seeing more and more girls rolling their waistbands every season. I have an email out to my local interpreter, and the state interpreter, asking about enforcement of this recent annual interpretation. I hope that we can just ignore. I really don't relish the idea of checking out the rear waistband of teenage female players to see if the waistband is rolled so that a logo is showing.

Have had to tell players this for years about rolling up their shorts. It is practically an every game issue. This is in boys games BTW. I do not get why this has become a thing. But it has and we will have to deal with it accordingly. Glad it is something the NF addressed. Now we have more cover in the rule.

Peace

I think it's a thing because shorts have gotten so long that the length is bothering the players. So they roll up to get to a comfortable length. This really strikes me as a solution in search of a problem. Perhaps it will drive coaches to ask manufacturers to shorten the shorts . . . are we headed back to the 70s?

Who Wears Short Shorts (The Royal Teens, 1958) ...
 

It appears that so cal lurker is correct:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...five/98891284/

Until I read this article (above), I didn't realize that this (below) was another method a making long shorts shorter. I didn't understand the interpretation at first, now I "get" it.

SITUATION 6: A1 has tucked the bottom of his/her shorts into the tights being worn. RULING: Illegal. The referee shall not allow the player to enter the game or direct the player to leave the game until the shorts are removed from inside the tights. After making the correction, the player may re-enter the game at the appropriate time for a substitution. The uniform should be worn as the manufacturer intended it to be. (3-5-5)

Short Shorts (The Royal Teens, 1958): https://youtu.be/MOfFB5QF4iQ

Also because uniforms get passed down year after year and the shorts don't fit, so players roll the waistband to compensate. Of course that's not our problem, but it's only an issue because the NFHS has decided to make it so. Why did they have to stick their nose in this?

Who is to say that a manufacturer did not intend its shorts to be rolled up, perhaps to show its logo?

MD officials are lucky that the MPSSAA has instructed officials to ignore this issue, unless multiple logos appear due to the shorts being rolled up.

Exactly.

In college games, I tell the players if they roll their shorts the label cannot show in accordance with:

Rule 1 Section 25. Logos, Labels, Trademarks, Patches

Art. 1. A single manufacturer’s or distributor’s normal logo, label or trademark meeting the size restrictions of Rule 1-25.2 is permitted once on the game jersey, once on the game shorts...

Yep -- in college, roll 'em under or roll 'em twice.

In HS, here, no rolling -- and I do try to enforce it.

Grassy Knoll ...
 

Wasn't the shooter on the grassy knoll wearing long shorts with the waistband rolled down?

(Young'uns. Look it up on the Google.)

Tune In Next Week, Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel ...
 

Got a response. Actually no response. It's on its way up the IAABO ladder, possibly all the way up to the IAABO Grand Imperial Poobah.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.8...=0&w=233&h=178

What is wrong with the drawstring? That makes one size fit a wide range.

The rolling of the waistbands is fully unnecessary.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/j...ust-a-unicorn/

Scan the above article until you reach the part discussing the length of his shorts and the issue it caused during a tournament in Vegas.

Self-Absorbed Much?
 

LOVELY QUOTE FROM THE ARTICLE:
"If you question how seriously Green takes his shorts, keep this in mind: After learning about the Nevada rule preventing players from rolling their shorts, the family canceled its plans to move to Las Vegas and have Jalen transfer to basketball power Findlay Prep.
"No, seriously.
"As soon as they said that, as soon as that happened, we already were saying that in the crowd, 'Well, guess we ain't going to Vegas. We ain't moving to Nevada,'" Marcus told CBS Sports. "And as soon as he came off the court, and the game was over, he was like, 'Yeah we're not moving to Nevada. If I can't roll my shorts I can't do it.' And so there it is. That killed it."
"Don't mess with this young man and his short shorts."

Parents aiding and abetting crass, self-absorbed me-ism.
Would be funny if Findlay Prep and the schools they play adopted the NFHS Interpretation. The parents would have to buy a new house somewhere else.

Ugh.

Does the drawstring shorten the length of the shorts?

It may or may not be unnecessary, but that doesn't mean it's something we should have to be involved in. Kids wear all sorts of unnecessary accessories that are legal under the rules.

This is not a safety issue and the interpretation is a solution in search of a problem. More fashion police rules is not something the game needs when I bet there will still be a significant percentage of officials who won't enforce it.

The way Raymond and Bob handle it in college games is the way it should be treated in high school.

I think you mean "HS should adopt the NCAA rule / interp on this."

It should be handled under all rules sets the way that rules set (including state adoptions, etc.) says to handle it.

What is the NCAA interp on this? I believe the applicable rules are the same (i.e. must wear as manufacturer intended, nothing else about rolling).

NCAAW, at least, has a specific interp that rolling is allowed unless it results in multiple logos.

NCAA-Men's has nothing about rolling in the rule or case book. One year it was brought up during preseason clinics and that's where I got the interp I enforce, which is not to allow a logo to show when the shorts are rolled.

Which is the way I've enforced it in HS games the past few years. Not anymore, though I still think we'll have plenty of officials who ignore it.

Sign Of The Apocalypse ...
 

Sounds like a Sports Illustrated Sign of the Apocalypse.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.U...=0&w=271&h=164

Most of the teams I've seen that do this have new/newer shorts, not old hand-me-downs. They shouldn't buy them long if the kids don't like them. That isn't our problem. The NFHS wants the uniform worn as designed for various reasons. I don't like dealing with it, but I don't get to make the rule.

My son's school is sponsored by a sports company, and they are given a new set of uniforms each year--sized, of course, to the varsity. That set, with the extra long current style shorts, get handed down to JV the next year, and then to the frosh. If the frosh can't roll them, I think a couple of those guards will have shorts dragging on the floor. . . .

I know what the NFHS wants and will enforce it as such unless our powers-that-be give us clear direction to the contrary. But it's still stupid.

Like Rut, I'm glad to have some official interp on this -- and particularly like the sweep of telling the coach to take care of it. Have spent increasing amounts of time in pre-game warm-ups telling players, including a LOT of boys, that they aren't supposed to roll. (It's a "cool" thing apparently.)

The kicker always is that you'll get eye contact with 2-3 of them and they'll start to comply and yet others nearby -- who clearly heard the discussion -- wait to be told they also have the same rule to follow.

And now that I'm typing this, let's not get started on the number of them who comply in the moment and then some time later, sometimes just a moment or two, try to get in the game with ... shorts rolled again. Sigh.

And as such, we don't enforce this item with freshman teams. This is applied to varsity teams that have proper uniforms and have no valid reason to roll them other than to just wanting to.

Looks Like I'll Be Checking Out The Waistbands Of Teenage Female Players ...
 

We had our first meeting of the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes last night. Connecticut will be enforcing the NFHS edict against players rolling their waistbands. Just what we need, another Fashion Police issue that coaches, players, and many officials will ignore.

Send them out the game and they'll start complying.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

True Colors (Cyndi Lauper, 1986) …
 

Absolutely, that will work great with me there on a Friday night, but when another official shows up on the next Tuesday night and ignores the issue, the vicious cycle will start all over again. Same as jerseys tucked in, undershirts, headbands, wrist bands, sleeves, compression shorts, tights, jewelry, etc.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.h...=0&w=300&h=300

You can only control what goes on in your games.

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Overly Officious Official ...
 

I'm just getting sick of being the "bad guy", the "overly officious official". It's not a great way to build good rapport with a coach when, even before the game begins, I'm telling him he has some equipment or uniform issues to deal with.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.P...=0&w=300&h=300

True, but that doesn't mean there isn't a fair gripe when other officials are actively ignoring the rule. Not much different than when a crew refuses to deal with unsporting behavior and then the next crew has to clean up their mess. Officials that don't handle business make it harder on everyone.

Thankfully, we have been told here that players may roll their waistbands so long as no additional manufacturer's logos are shown, thereby ignoring the interpretation.

That gripe is aimed at the assignor, not me.

"Coach, I can't speak for other officials, tonight we are enforcing the rule."

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I apologize in advance for arriving late to the party.

1) Those veterans of this Forum know that I am a (reluctant) member of the Fashion Police Squad. Meaning, I enforce the Rules as required.

2) I would like to bring everyone's attention a thread from January 2017. My main contribution to the thread is Comment #8; unfortunately Billy YouTube video is no longer available.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...rm-police.html


MTD, Sr.

I have a feeling you could completely ignore the fashion rules the rest of your career and still not come anywhere close to shaking that rep.

Don't Want To Be The Straw That Stirs The Drink ...
 

With apologies to Reggie Jackson.

I can actually be very flexible, as either the referee, or the umpire, to make sure that my partner and I are both the same page. We pregame as a team, we work the game as a team, we postgame as a team, and we leave as a team. A "lone wolf" I'm not, it would be counterproductive on so many different levels. My flexibility is based on the level of the game, the style of play, and the style, and experience, of my partner.

OhioHSAA Ruling for Situation 9.
 

I just watched the mandatory OhioHSAA Online State Rules Meeting (which has been online since 09:00amEDT, Wed., Oct. 17th). And the official position of the OhioHSAA is that rolled waistbands are legal as long as a "manufacturer's logo" is not visible. Which means that Situation 9 is null and void in the OhioHSAA.

I have not yet watched the MichiganHSAA Online State Rules Meeting (unlike the OhioHSAA Meeting) it is not mandatory unless one wishes to be considered for the post-season tournament, and non-Michigan residents are not eligible. So I will probably watch it later today. The MichiganHSAA Meeting is usually considerably longer that the OhioHSAA Meeting (00:17:46 this year).

MTD, Sr.

One small aside to Freddy.
 

Freddy:

Due to the fact that I attended college in the 1970s, the title that you gave to this thread brought back fond memories of my college days, ;).

MTD, Sr.

Iowa has made it clear they expect us to enforce this interp. They put it into the preseason coaches' meeting that all coaches and officials are required to view. They also included it at all preseason clinics. Should be a fun first few weeks of the season.

MTD, this will not be found on the mhsaa online rules meeting which is a voiceover boilerplate of the nfhs produced PowerPoint. This came by way of the interpretations which came out later than that, but when I asked the new associate director about it he said we are going to enforce it in our state this year. Therefore I put it in all the power points that I produce.

Freddy:

I watched the MichiganHSAA Online State Rules Meeting this afternoon. It was at least 40 minutes too long, but I received my certificate to print, LOL! And I download a copy of all of your PPt presentations.

MTD, Sr.

*I like your use of alliteration; however, as long as there is going to be differential preference for rules enforcement [within states, let alone between states], then I fear we will always have this dilemma. I for one can honestly say that I am not in favor of the "rolled" appearance of shorts--looks trashy and unkept. But I guess we should blame the Michigan Fab Five for this trend. Alas...the pendulum now swings back the other way now. Even LeBron is wearing shorts that are 'shorter'. I wish you all a fine season of rules enforcement and enjoyment of the contests.
Excuse me while I go shave off my 7 months of beard growth prior to the season starting

And Get A Flu Shot ...
 

Remember to stock up on some much needed items:

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.b...=0&w=300&h=300

*Ohh OK, thanks for the list--I'll need to order at least 2 of the 'Collared Ref Shirts";); and just maybe I can get a better look with the blu blocker shades on.

*Just got the word from the State Interpreter: according to him we are to ALLOW rolled shorts even if the manufacturer's logo is visible--as long as the players have the tie-string is tucked in. So, I guess I'm reversing my stance...but hey at least I don't have to bother with telling coaches about the rolled shorts. Now I can focus on improving on getting the coaches out of their 30 seconds time out [stop abusing the 30 sec time out is what our crew got dinged on in an eval last season].