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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 30, 2018, 03:59pm
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Ten Second Visual Count ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
Can't tell you whether its my part of Rome or official empire guidelines but we are expected to to show a visual count to indicate to players/coaches etc. that count is happening.
Here in Connecticut, private prep schools use a hybrid version of NFHS and NCAA rules, including a thirty second shot clock for boys and girls varsity (not subvarsity) games. Varsity officials use the thirty second shot clock for our ten second count, with no visual counting, except when the shot clock is turned off (end of half, private prep schools use halves) when we must (obviously) use a visual count.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed May 30, 2018 at 04:01pm.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 31, 2018, 10:02am
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Here on Mars, we use the shot clock to determine how much air you have left in your oxygen tank.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 03, 2018, 04:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Agree on the lower baskets and smaller balls.

With all due respect, I disagree on shot clocks. I believe that a shot clock SHOULD be adopted, and not for the strategic reasons that many coaches want it for. A shot clock should reduce deliberate (note: not intentional, because that is a specific term in the rules) fouls at the end of the game, because fouling actually creates a disadvantage for the fouling team. Fouling does stop the clock, but the shot clock will reset, giving the offense a new possession and a better chance to run out the shot (or game, depending on time remaining) clock.

If teams do not foul near the end of the game, we as officials do not have to guess on which deliberate fouls to rule as intentional fouls, and which deliberate fouls to rule as common fouls. This will eliminate the need for NFHS to constantly put intentional fouls as a point of emphasis every year, because intentional fouls would then only happen in excessive contact/dangerous play situations, or if a player did not try to play the ball. In addition, fewer fouls would mean a safer game, because players who are not fouled will not be as likely to retaliate or talk trash to other players. Officials' jobs would be easier, because they will not have to rule every touch as a foul in the last few minutes, as is currently the accepted practice in non-shot clock games.

I may have limited experience as a basketball official (3 years overall, 1 season at the high school sub-varsity level), but I have worked games both with and without the shot clock, and have noticed that teams who play with a shot clock play basketball throughout all 32 minutes of the game, instead of just for 28 minutes. I have also noticed fewer deliberate fouls with a shot clock than without a shot clock in my games, whether in boys or girls games, whether in urban public school games or private school games.

A 30-second shot clock would be the easiest to use for high school games, because a visible 10-second count would not be required (if the official sees that the ball is still in the backcourt with 20 seconds on the shot clock, there is a violation) while the shot clock is on. This would free the official to concentrate on a wider area of the court in transition. This is why I would recommend a 30-second shot clock for high school play. If high school chose to go with a 24-second shot clock, then a visual count would be needed, because the FIBA/NBA backcourt count is 8 seconds, not 10.
We don't use a visible count anymore.

If you can't subtract 8 from 24, then you have a problem.

Our HS uses a modified FIBA- they still allow you to call timeout from the floor whereas real FIBA does not. They also have a 35 second shot clock with a full reset on everything which is vastly different from real FIBA.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 03, 2018, 04:33am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Does the FIBA manual require a visible 8-second count or is the shot clock the official record of the 8-second count? I've read the August 2017 FIBA Interpretations document, and the situations that deal with the 8-second count all seem to indicate that the 8 second count only would reset if the shot clock resets to 24.

In NCAA and NBA rules, the backcourt count is not visible, because the shot clock determines the backcourt count (NCAA Men adds timeouts to the list of times that the count resets, and the NBA also has some exceptions (jump ball controlled in backcourt, infection control, or a throw-in into the backcourt)). The only time that a visible backcourt count is used (in NCAA), is when the shot clock is off.

If FIBA uses a non-visible count (there are no references to doing an 8-second count in the 2015 updates to the basic FIBA 3-man manual), it would make sense to adopt FIBA rules in the US as well, at least for ease of officiating. It would be very interesting to see high school, college, and professional players playing the same brand of basketball throughout their careers, and would create some consistency for officials moving up from one level of play to another, rather than requiring them to learn disparate sets of rules and mechanics for each level.

No more visible 8 count in FIBA.

FIBA has done a complete about face in the past 5 years. Originally, the visible count had have your fingers show the count ( thumb meant 1 second, thumb and index finger 2 seconds and so on), then they changed to a normal count, and now we do absolutely nothing unless there is a change of possession with less than 24 seconds left and the game clock is not displayed on the shot clock above the net.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 03, 2018, 12:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
Can't tell you whether its my part of Rome or official empire quidelines but we are expected to to show a visual count to indicate to players/coaches etc that count is happening. If there is a discrepency between my count and the shot clock expectation is that we stop the game to have the clock set properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by constable View Post
No more visible 8 count in FIBA.

FIBA has done a complete about face in the past 5 years. Originally, the visible count had have your fingers show the count ( thumb meant 1 second, thumb and index finger 2 seconds and so on), then they changed to a normal count, and now we do absolutely nothing unless there is a change of possession with less than 24 seconds left and the game clock is not displayed on the shot clock above the net.
Cool! Right now, I am developing a big rules differences/shot clock procedures document, and one of the sections is about the backcourt count, because that is related to the shot clock in most levels of basketball. I was confused, because Pantherdreams above said that he had to use a visible 8-second count, and I didn't know what to put in my document, because the FIBA mechanics manual does not mention how to do 8-second counts. I would also like to be able to work FIBA basketball, so I'm trying to grok FIBA as well as US rules (NFHS/NCAA/NBA). If anyone is interested, I could post the file as a separate topic, or PM it to individual members.
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