Three officials who aren't advancing
 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/refs-bo...222356055.html

I understand that many officials are not "rules guys," but how can there not be at least one person on an NCAAW tournament game who knows this basic rule--the definition of a goal?

Had a high level AAU game once where this happened. For some reason I got this crossed up with the rare occurrence where the ball seems to be all the way through but then inexplicably somehow rattles back up and out.

But I wasn’t sure. My partner was counting it, so I halt play for a quick conference. Right when we got to each other, the “remains in or passes through” verbiage entered my head. The conference took two seconds. I realized my first instinct was incorrect, and we counted the goal and moved on.

That was two of us in an AAU game. But three in an NCAA tournament game? Yeah, no excuse.


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I'm amazed it got stuck....for the apparent first time. The women's ball is smaller than men's. Was the net installed during the dead ball that preceded this play? Or was it fine for all warm-ups and the game played up until that point? Better check one of the players for stick-um or a foreign substance, lol. Amazing that it got stuck. On a side note, what is the status of the ball? Live? Dead? Ref blew whistle during shot. What if there was a foul, say a Tech, while the ball was stuck? Is that a dead ball T or a live ball T?:confused:

I'm totally flabbergasted about this. Even more so than the West Virginia .3 'buzzer beater'. But at the same time I assume all the refs for both games were experienced officials and thought it would not have happened to them in making glaring mistakes. Maybe it is somehow a psychology thing as I would assume they knew the rules before, at least most of them should have. Weird how these things happen and I guess you can't really say it won't happen to you.

1. The whistle was for a foul by a defender against the shooter.
2. What is the status of the ball after any made goal?

1. Yea, I know, as indicated.

2. When was the goal made?

Does it make a difference?

When the conditions were met.

(Similar to a violation happening "at the same time" as a foul, the officials must decide which happened first.)

Yes, it does. When were the conditions met?

With all due respect Bob, don't be like that. Don't be like so many others that do not provide actual answers.

side note: I wonder how officials would have reacted if there was no whistle for the foul. I also wonder what the clock operator would have done if there was less than a minute in the game and there was no whistle. (presuming, like NCAAM, clock stops under a min for NCCAW)

Another 3 Who Should Not Move On
 

Doug Shows, Kelly Self, and Dwayne Gladden was the crew.
March Madness 2018: Auburn put wrong player on free-throw line to seal win vs. Charleston | NCAA Basketball | Sporting News

If there was a technical foul called why would it matter if the ball was dead or live?

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I gave an actual answer -- and, the correct one.

And, it should be "who." Another actual answer.

Thanks for the grammar correction. I do appreciate that although when you indicated "Does it make a difference?", I consider that to be a question, not an answer. Perhaps you were thinking that your question was providing an answer but if we are sticking to strict grammar rules.. suddenly, then it did not. Furthermore, "When the conditions were met" is not even a complete sentence and does not answer the question but rather repeats it in a different form.

Coach: Why was my player given a technical foul?
You: The conditions were met

I am not confident that you would answer that way.

The bigger picture is exactly what you described by saying "When the conditions are met." Give rule book citations that apply to when the ball is stuck in the net as to its status and those conditions please.

okay --

Yes, it would have been a dead ball T or a live ball T. ;) I am still not sure it makes a difference to any subsequent administration -- that's why I asked a serious question.

And, the parenthetical part of my initial response is (or implies to any intelligent reader) the answer to your second question -- the ball becomes dead when the official decides the ball is stuck in the net.

Bucky, I think bob is trying to teach you to fish.

You can lead a horse to water...........

Just As The Mother Lion Protects Her Cubs ...
 

... you can protect your children with an insurance policy from Mutual of Omaha.

When did the Forum become Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom? Will Marlin Perkins and Jim Fowler start posting from that big jungle in the sky?

Would this also be a technical foul in NCAA-M?
If nothing else this just goes to show that stuff like this can happen to the best of us.
Saw teams try this a few times this year in HS. One team got away with it. Luckily I was not on that crew but just observing. I had a team try this on me early in the season but I caught them before anyone lined up for shots and made sure to let everyone know who the correct shooter should be.

Don't give a T...
 

Yes..... by rule it could be a T, but you would be chastised for not managing that situation. Had a game where the wrong kid went to the line and he knew it. Walked up to him and said ( with a smile ), " I know you don't belong here and you know it as well. Now Im going to back away away and bounce the ball, if you catch the ball, Im going to T you up Now walk away and get the right person at the line." He smiled and walked away...he was now my de facto captain the rest of the year whenever a player on his team got mouthy...

Michael Jordon In My Game ???
 

It's common practice here in my little corner of Connecticut for officials to tell each other, "Twenty-three shoots", before granting a timeout before a free throw situation.

In every free throw situation, it's the responsibility of the noncalling official to remember the shooter. If not obvious, it's the responsibility of the calling official to identify the shooter, by pointing, or verbally, "Twenty-three shoots", or both.

Wasn't it Confucius who said, "When the ball is dead, we must be alive."?

Shortly after it became open mic night for some......

Touché ...
 

Well played asdf.

Not too shabby for a Forum member with only 746 posts.

Some day, you too, will become an Esteemed Forum Member, and it will probably happen sooner rather than later.

Again, well played grasshopper.

Doug Shows did advance to the round of 32, currently refereeing the West Virginia-Marshall game. We will see if he goes further.

I’m pretty sure Round of 32 games are assigned before the first round.

Which official called the foul?

It would be hard to hold the other two responsible if they were off ball and the calling official says #99 is my shooter.

We have this discussion every year. I think you’re right, but within the pool of officials that JD assigns to a specific opening weekend site (12), I believe he has the discretion to unassign a second round official for cause if he sees fit.


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Yup. Officials are always assigned to a site and officials that work round of 32 come from the 12 guys that worked the round of 64 there. I'm sure JD takes his top 48 guys and divides them up by site and then fills in the other 48. So he knows who he wants working the round of 32 beforehand, but of course he would be able to pulls Shows if he felt the error was his. Maybe JD didn't think Shows was culpable for the error or maybe didn't care. I think JD cares so I would wager Shows was found not guilty.

I've been following this forum since it's inception. One doesn't need 15,000 posts to understand who posts silliness and who posts reliable information on here.

True, but having more than 28 posts since January helps.


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Doug Shows, Kelly Self, and Dwayne Gladden was the crew.
March Madness 2018: Auburn put wrong player on free-throw line to seal win vs. Charleston | NCAA Basketball | Sporting News[/QUOTE]

The observing official could have also alerted the 3 on court officials that the wrong player was on the line.

The ''observing official" is highly reluctant to even think of questioning the workflow decisions of the "on-court officials"; however, notwithstanding this fault, the ruse likely tricked the observer also.

Not saying you are wrong but I would think almost the exact opposite. During the pre-game, I would tell the alternate ref to watch us (3 officiating) very closely and help us avoid any mistakes. I would instruct him that he was part of the crew, needs to pay close attention to every play, and help whenever it is needed or he feels it necessary. Probably overkill but that is what I would instruct if I was the R. Perhaps they are reluctant but man, I would be angry if an alternate at the table withheld any info from me. Perhaps their duties are non-existent unless an official goes down. I do not know exactly but still, I would think if you got some intel to share, better share it.

What ruse? The calling official indicated the wrong shooter. He looked away and then realized he didn't have the shooter. When he looked back, he picked the wrong one. Auburn didn't send the wrong guy to the line.

One of the articles listed mentions that the rebounder quickly tossed the ball to his teammate after the whistle and when the official looked back after reporting the player holding the ball was identified as the shooter.
Auburn has not denied any gamesmanship in this situation.

OK, but how many times do players drop or toss the ball away after the whistle? You've got to get a lot more than that to claim it was a ruse planned by Auburn. In all likelihood, that rebounder would have passed the ball to that player even if there hadn't been a foul since frontcourt players typically get the ball to a guard to take it down the court.

From what I've been told, none of the crew (including the Alternate) moved on to this weekend.

I'm surprised that no one on the crew knew the relevant rules. Do NCAA or the conferences not conduct online rules tests as a requirement to officiate college basketball? I would be surprised if the NCAA tests do not ask questions about funky situations like this.

Did not know which rule?

Raymond, the OP referred to a situation where the ball remained stuck in the basket (it went in the ring, but failed to pass through the net) but the officials chose not to count the basket. By rule, they should have, and this is what created the whole controversy.

Oh, ok. I should have went back to the beginning of the thread.

And no, that question was not, and as far as I can remember, ever been on the preseason NCAA-Men's test.