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ChuckS Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:54am

T?
 
I know our “T” thresholds are all different, but I just wanted to take the pulse of the Forum:

4th Grade Boys Travel, at halftime, the 1st place team is losing a close game to a sub-.500 team. Huddle is 10 feet from where partner and I are sitting. HC screaming at his players “That team STINKS”! I can’t believe you are losing to them (points to the other team), this will wreck our playoff seeding. You’d better get it together in the 2nd half!”
Obviously at the HS level, nothing, but 4th graders…I didn’t do anything, anybody whacking him?

8th grade girls, travel playoff game, in the first minute I notice Team A HC and 2 ACs standing. At the next dead ball, I tell the HC that the ACs must be seated. He says OK, and AC1 immediately sits down. I walk back to administer the throw-in, and I see AC2 still standing. I look over at him, and he says “I am scratching my back”. Then he sits. Not giving that T bothered me more than the first one. Just took me a little too long to process what he said.

LRZ Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:11am

No and No
 
#1: What has the coach done T-worthy? Nothing unsporting, or even really objectionable. I might not let my kid play for a negative screamer, but that's a different story.

#2: Since it was still early in the game, I might first gesture to the AC to sit, but if I thought he was jerking me around, I might issue an official warning, but not a T. There would be plenty of time to T a coach who persisted in violating the rules.

JRutledge Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:19am

I am not doing anything like this at any level. I stay out of interactions with teams and certainly if he says something that is probably insulting without cursing about another team that is overheard, I really am not getting involved in that either. Nothing was over the top. It might have been bad judgment in the bigger picture, but not in sports where thinking you are better than another team is what happens all the time.

To each his own I guess.

Peace

BryanV21 Fri Mar 02, 2018 01:35pm

1. No T. Some raised eyebrows along with a comment to my partner with something along the lines of "this can't be the first time he's said something like this loud enough for parents to hear, yet they still let this guy coach their kids. Wow."

2. Was the assistant being an ass while saying "I was scratching my back"? I mean, was that a legit excuse? If it was not legit, I'm letting the head coach know this is the last time. And the length of rope he has from there on it is probably going to be short.

ChuckS Fri Mar 02, 2018 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 1018102)
2. Was the assistant being an ass while saying "I was scratching my back"? I mean, was that a legit excuse? If it was not legit, I'm letting the head coach know this is the last time. And the length of rope he has from there on it is probably going to be short.

No tone of voice, but it was only a few seconds later that I realized it wasn't a legit excuse, and he was being a jerk. I did tell my partner about it, that he was on a short leash.

BryanV21 Fri Mar 02, 2018 02:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 1018103)
No tone of voice, but it was only a few seconds later that I realized it wasn't a legit excuse, and he was being a jerk. I did tell my partner about it, that he was on a short leash.

Sounds good

LRZ Fri Mar 02, 2018 02:42pm

One way to deal with ACs is through the HC: "Coach, I'm not going to put up with nonsense from ACs. Control your bench." The HC would/should know that a T on bench personnel will cost him/her the coaching box privilege.

JRutledge Fri Mar 02, 2018 02:49pm

Exactly.

I told a HC this year, "If you want him to get you in trouble, then allow him to keep talking. I am giving you a chance to handle it, you will not like it when I get involved."

The AC eventually shut up and we moved on

Peace

griblets Fri Mar 02, 2018 02:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 1018092)
I know our “T” thresholds are all different, but I just wanted to take the pulse of the Forum:



4th Grade Boys Travel, at halftime, the 1st place team is losing a close game to a sub-.500 team. Huddle is 10 feet from where partner and I are sitting. HC screaming at his players “That team STINKS”! I can’t believe you are losing to them (points to the other team), this will wreck our playoff seeding. You’d better get it together in the 2nd half!”

Obviously at the HS level, nothing, but 4th graders…I didn’t do anything, anybody whacking him?


I’m likely to be in the minority, but I would seriously consider it, and likely regret it if I passed. There’s no place in youth sports for that. No 10 year old kid should have to hear an adult say that about him/her.

I cringe when I hear a coach yelling things like “she can’t dribble” when the whole gym can hear it, especially when it’s intentional to get into the head of a youth player. The win at all costs mentality in youth sports is sickening. It’s unsporting behavior that I feel needs addressed at younger age groups. I choose to have a positive impact on and support youth players who can’t defend themselves from thoughtless or ruthless adults.




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JRutledge Fri Mar 02, 2018 03:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by griblets (Post 1018108)
I’m likely to be in the minority, but I would seriously consider it, and likely regret it if I passed. There’s no place in youth sports for that. No 10 year old kid should have to hear an adult say that about him/her.

I cringe when I hear a coach yelling things like “she can’t dribble” when the whole gym can hear it, especially when it’s intentional to get into the head of a youth player. The win at all costs mentality in youth sports is sickening. It’s unsporting behavior that I feel needs addressed at younger age groups. I choose to have a positive impact on and support youth players who can’t defend themselves from thoughtless or ruthless adults.

What is a coach supposed to tell a player if they are not good at something? You cannot tell a player that their opponent cannot dribble or shoot? Not trying to be funny, but if you cannot do those things as a player, the best way to counter that is to get better at that skill. I find nothing even remotely offensive about that kind of thing. They are going to hear that the older they get for sure.

I get the position that youth sports are not in a great place, but to me, that has nothing to do with that fact. That is a coach actually coaching and telling them what to do or how to defend their opponent.

We are not the moral police, we are officials calling the game.

Peace

griblets Fri Mar 02, 2018 03:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 1018092)
HC screaming at his players “That team STINKS”! I can’t believe you are losing to them (points to the other team), this will wreck our playoff seeding. You’d better get it together in the 2nd half!”



That is not coaching. That is degrading 10 year old kids. If thats within earshot of the other team, it fits the definition of unsporting behavior.

A youth coach’s responsibility is to coach his/her own team, not belittle and critique the skills of the opposing players.



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LRZ Fri Mar 02, 2018 03:12pm

"The win at all costs mentality in youth sports is sickening. It’s unsporting behavior that I feel needs addressed at younger age groups. I choose to have a positive impact on and support youth players who can’t defend themselves from thoughtless or ruthless adults."

That is for the parents and that team's/association's officers to address, not for me, as an official. Kids have their parents to defend them from abuse. I agree with Jeff--we are not there to enforce our personal sense of morality.

JRutledge Fri Mar 02, 2018 03:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by griblets (Post 1018113)
That is not coaching. That is degrading 10 year old kids. If thats within earshot of the other team, it fits the definition of unsporting behavior.

A youth coach’s responsibility is to coach his/her own team, not belittle and critique the skills of the opposing players.

I have a 10-year-old in 4th grade right now. They have heard a lot worse I can tell you that for sure. And I would agree, but that is not belittling the kids. He was talking about the team and has a right to say things to his/her players about the other team. If that cannot happen, then they will never learn a lot of things. I agree it might not be totally nice, but it was not unsporting.

Peace

bucky Fri Mar 02, 2018 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 1018092)
I know our “T” thresholds are all different, but I just wanted to take the pulse of the Forum:

4th Grade Boys Travel, at halftime, the 1st place team is losing a close game to a sub-.500 team. Huddle is 10 feet from where partner and I are sitting. HC screaming at his players “That team STINKS”! I can’t believe you are losing to them (points to the other team), this will wreck our playoff seeding. You’d better get it together in the 2nd half!”
Obviously at the HS level, nothing, but 4th graders…I didn’t do anything, anybody whacking him?

8th grade girls, travel playoff game, in the first minute I notice Team A HC and 2 ACs standing. At the next dead ball, I tell the HC that the ACs must be seated. He says OK, and AC1 immediately sits down. I walk back to administer the throw-in, and I see AC2 still standing. I look over at him, and he says “I am scratching my back”. Then he sits. Not giving that T bothered me more than the first one. Just took me a little too long to process what he said.

Once I saw "4th grade" and "8th grade" I stopped reading. Forget nearly any kind of technical foul at such levels. Put your people skills to work to resolve any non-basketball issues.

ChuckS Fri Mar 02, 2018 03:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1018117)
Once I saw "4th grade" and "8th grade" I stopped reading. Forget nearly any kind of technical foul at such levels. Put your people skills to work to resolve any non-basketball issues.

The consensus here in the past has been to have less tolerance for nonsense at the lower levels.


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