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-   -   Can assistant coach stand after HC ejected? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103538-can-assistant-coach-stand-after-hc-ejected.html)

gogumakilla Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:39pm

Can assistant coach stand after HC ejected?
 
For some reason I cannot find this in the rule book. HC gets ejected, as the new coach can the assistant coach stand or does he also lose that privilege?

SNIPERBBB Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:52pm

An assistant coach doesn't get promoted to head coach because his boss got tossed. He is bench personnel and gets to sit.

gogumakilla Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:54pm

Thanks.

so cal lurker Thu Feb 15, 2018 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1017156)
An assistant coach doesn't get promoted to head coach because his boss got tossed. He is bench personnel and gets to sit.

Hmm. Does that mean he cannot request TOs?

SC Official Thu Feb 15, 2018 01:17pm

A team loses the box for the rest of the game after the first direct or indirect T on the coach.

So, no.

And I hate the seatbelt rule.

LRZ Thu Feb 15, 2018 01:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1017156)
An assistant coach doesn't get promoted to head coach because his boss got tossed. He is bench personnel and gets to sit.

Gets to sit, sounds right. Bench personnel, not so much. I don't think this is so clear.

Besides the TO question, the AC can't go to the table for a CE? Can't enter the court to prevent a situation from escalating? Can't permit team members to leave the bench area for an authorized reason? Is not responsible for the conduct of bench personnel?

Unless a rule or case says otherwise, isn't it more appropriate to treat the AC as the HC, with the loss of the coaching box?

Raymond Thu Feb 15, 2018 01:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1017162)
...

Unless a rule or case says otherwise, isn't it more appropriate to treat the AC as the HC, with the loss of the coaching box?

He is now the acting HC with the same privileges as the HC. And since HC lost coaching box privileges, the acting HC has lost coaching box privileges.

LRZ Thu Feb 15, 2018 02:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1017163)
He is now the acting HC with the same privileges as the HC. And since HC lost coaching box privileges, the acting HC has lost coaching box privileges.

My question was really rhetorical.

BillyMac Thu Feb 15, 2018 05:34pm

End Of Discussion ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1017163)
He is now the acting HC with the same privileges as the HC. And since HC lost coaching box privileges, the acting HC has lost coaching box privileges.

Nice explanation Raymond. Simple, and to the point.

Close the thread. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.C...=0&w=210&h=169

Nevadaref Thu Feb 15, 2018 06:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1017163)
He is now the acting HC with the same privileges as the HC. And since HC lost coaching box privileges, the acting HC has lost coaching box privileges.

Got a rules citation to support that?

Raymond Thu Feb 15, 2018 07:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1017184)
Got a rules citation to support that?

How about you come up with the rules citation that tells us at the new acting coach cannot request timeouts? Or how about you come up with a citation that says the new acting coach can stand up.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

bob jenkins Thu Feb 15, 2018 07:19pm

From 2--1-2002:

SITUATION 9: At the end of their pre-game warm-up, players Al, A4, A5, A9 each dunk the ball and subsequently leave the floor and go to their dressing room. RULING: A technical foul is assessed each player. The game starts with eight (8) free throws (2 for each of the technical fouls) and the ball is awarded to B at the division line opposite the table. Four team fouls toward the bonus are assessed to A. The head coach of A is assessed an indirect technical foul for each offense (4) and is subsequently ejected from the contest. Any coach assuming the responsibilities of the head coach for the game would not have the use of the coaching box. (10-3-5; 10-5 Pen)

LRZ Thu Feb 15, 2018 08:00pm

MTD heard footsteps in his attic. It was only Bob, rooting through the boxes for that reference.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Feb 15, 2018 08:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1017163)
He is now the acting HC with the same privileges as the HC. And since HC lost coaching box privileges, the acting HC has lost coaching box privileges.


Raymond:

Very good analysis and explanation of the Rule.

MTD, Sr.

BillyMac Thu Feb 15, 2018 08:05pm

Just Kidding, It's Just BillyMac Being BillyMac ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1017188)
SITUATION 9: At the end of their pre-game warm-up, players Al, A4, A5, A9 each dunk the ball and subsequently leave the floor and go to their dressing room. RULING: A technical foul is assessed each player. The game starts with eight (8) free throws (2 for each of the technical fouls) and the ball is awarded to B at the division line opposite the table. Four team fouls toward the bonus are assessed to A. The head coach of A is assessed an indirect technical foul for each offense (4) and is subsequently ejected from the contest. Any coach assuming the responsibilities of the head coach for the game would not have the use of the coaching box. (10-3-5; 10-5 Pen)

Hey? You posted the interpretation before I could look it up.

Camron Rust Thu Feb 15, 2018 09:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1017163)
He is now the acting HC with the same privileges as the HC. And since HC lost coaching box privileges, the acting HC has lost coaching box privileges.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1017184)
Got a rules citation to support that?

If that were not the case, many parts of the rule book would be impossible to follow...
Quote:

ART. 10 . . . Reporting a team warning for delay to the official scorer and then to the head coach.

ART. 11 . . . Notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final allowable time-out.

ART. 4 . . . Notify the head coach and request the timer to begin the replacement interval, and then notify the player on a disqualification.
Does that mean, if the head coach is ejected, there is no one to notify and, as such, a player can never be disqualified (since a player isn't disqualified until the coach is notified)?

If a disqualified player subsequently participates, who do you charge that T to? The rules specify the "head coach".

Also, the book uses "head coach" and just "coach" interchangeably throughout....

Quote:

A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.
Note here is uses only "coach" where the same thing, in a different part, uses "head coach" (above).

For that matter, the only place "assistant" is mentioned anywhere in the book is in the technical foul summary.

The implications throughout the book are that there is always a "head" coach. Sometimes, they use just "the coach". It is just that one the box is lost for the game, the box is lost for whoever is the current head coach.

JRutledge Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:56pm

I cannot even believe that some veterans try to split hairs the way they do. It is just funny on so many levels.

Really, we are worried about if the new HC can request a timeout? WOW!!!!

Peace

Nevadaref Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:17am

My take is the following:
Once the head coach is ejected, all of the privileges associated with such a position are lost to the team.
I will not be granting a time-out request from anyone on the bench. I will also not charge indirect technical fouls to anyone on the bench. The team simply doesn't have a head coach for the rest of the contest.

AremRed Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1017236)
My take is the following:
Once the head coach is ejected, all of the privileges associated with such a position are lost to the team.
I will not be granting a time-out request from anyone on the bench. I will also not charge indirect technical fouls to anyone on the bench. The team simply doesn't have a head coach for the rest of the contest.

Text me at halftime when you've ejected a head coach cuz I wanna come watch that second half!

Raymond Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1017236)
My take is the following:
Once the head coach is ejected, all of the privileges associated with such a position are lost to the team.
I will not be granting a time-out request from anyone on the bench. I will also not charge indirect technical fouls to anyone on the bench. The team simply doesn't have a head coach for the rest of the contest.

Whom will you notify when a player fouls out? Whom will you penalize when they fail to provide a sub?

rotationslim Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1017236)
My take is the following:
Once the head coach is ejected, all of the privileges associated with such a position are lost to the team.
I will not be granting a time-out request from anyone on the bench. I will also not charge indirect technical fouls to anyone on the bench. The team simply doesn't have a head coach for the rest of the contest.

wait-- are you being sarcastic??? I hope so-- previous post indicates clearly there is an expectation that someone pick up on the responsibilities of HC.

"(From 2--1-2002:SITUATION 9: At the end of their pre-game warm-up, players Al, A4, A5, A9 each dunk the ball and subsequently leave the floor and go to their dressing room. RULING: A technical foul is assessed each player. The game starts with eight (8) free throws (2 for each of the technical fouls) and the ball is awarded to B at the division line opposite the table. Four team fouls toward the bonus are assessed to A. The head coach of A is assessed an indirect technical foul for each offense (4) and is subsequently ejected from the contest. Any coach assuming the responsibilities of the head coach for the game would not have the use of the coaching box. (10-3-5; 10-5 Pen)"

Raymond Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotationslim (Post 1017263)
wait-- are you being sarcastic??? I hope so-- previous post indicates clearly there is an expectation that someone pick up on the responsibilities of HC.

"(From 2--1-2002:SITUATION 9: At the end of their pre-game warm-up, players Al, A4, A5, A9 each dunk the ball and subsequently leave the floor and go to their dressing room. RULING: A technical foul is assessed each player. The game starts with eight (8) free throws (2 for each of the technical fouls) and the ball is awarded to B at the division line opposite the table. Four team fouls toward the bonus are assessed to A. The head coach of A is assessed an indirect technical foul for each offense (4) and is subsequently ejected from the contest. Any coach assuming the responsibilities of the head coach for the game would not have the use of the coaching box. (10-3-5; 10-5 Pen)"

I'm sure our Georgetown law graduate will find some nonsensical reason why this isn't applicable.

JRutledge Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1017236)
My take is the following:
Once the head coach is ejected, all of the privileges associated with such a position are lost to the team.
I will not be granting a time-out request from anyone on the bench. I will also not charge indirect technical fouls to anyone on the bench. The team simply doesn't have a head coach for the rest of the contest.

Forgive me while I laugh completely out loud!!!!

All the moralizing about the rules and this is what you come up with?

Peace

Camron Rust Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1017236)
My take is the following:
Once the head coach is ejected, all of the privileges associated with such a position are lost to the team.
I will not be granting a time-out request from anyone on the bench. I will also not charge indirect technical fouls to anyone on the bench. The team simply doesn't have a head coach for the rest of the contest.

You must be kidding. Normally, you make good points, however, your position on this is utter nonsense.

Consider the point I made earlier....if there is no head coach, you can't legally disqualify any player after the head coach is ejected since the head coach must be notified before the disqualification becomes official. Are you going to let that player continue to play?

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1017236)
My take is the following:
Once the head coach is ejected, all of the privileges associated with such a position are lost to the team.
I will not be granting a time-out request from anyone on the bench. I will also not charge indirect technical fouls to anyone on the bench. The team simply doesn't have a head coach for the rest of the contest.


NevadaRef:

I want to smoke some of whatever you are smoking. :p

MTD, Sr.

SC Official Fri Feb 16, 2018 01:17pm

We occasionally have some ridiculous threads on this forum. But this one might take the cake.

I can't believe that the idea of not granting the acting head coach a timeout is even a discussion. And I can't believe that there are actually forum members who think that way.

BillyMac Fri Feb 16, 2018 06:59pm

Sarcasm ???
 
Nevadaref has got to be yanking our chains. He's smarter than that, much smarter.

justacoach Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1017318)
Nevadaref has got to be yanking our chains. He's smarter than that, much smarter.

I'm willing to bet his keyboard doesn't support typing in a blue font.

Raymond Sat Feb 17, 2018 08:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1017318)
Nevadaref has got to be yanking our chains. He's smarter than that, much smarter.

I'm waiting on him to tell us the answer to a few questions directed his way.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

LRZ Sat Feb 17, 2018 08:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by justacoach (Post 1017328)
I'm willing to bet his keyboard doesn't support typing in a blue font.

I'm older than MTD, and I don't have a Jr around the house to ask: what does blue font signify?

ChuckS Sat Feb 17, 2018 08:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1017339)
I'm older than MTD, and I don't have a Jr around the house to ask: what does blue font signify?

Sarcasm


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