Oakland v Youngstown ending
 

The end of the Oakland/Youngstown State game tonight would be a good one for instruction and discussion, if someone could post a video.

NevadaRef:

I did not watch the game live on ESPN3.com last night, but I watched the replay and my beloved Youngstown State University Penguins (Bachelor of Engineering (major: Civil Engineering), Class of 1980) won with a buzzer beater, so I do not understand what there is to discuss, ;).

YSU took TO with 0:06.4 left in the 2nd Half and wen the length of the court to shoot the winning shot with 0:00.2 left in the 2nd Half. I am not sure what there is to discuss the game video shows the ball clearly out of Covington's hand with 0:00.1 left in the 2nd Half. The GO checked the video before leaving Dom Rosseli Court.

He is the link to the replay, one can jump to 1:33 of the video to last the end of the game: Oakland vs. Youngstown State (M Basketball) - WatchESPN

MTD, Sr.

LOL....I see it.

Oakland coach probably wanted the officials to call a traveling violation on YSU #1.

That is the point to discuss.

From my phone it looks like he simply fumbled the ball and recovered it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Yes, I am a Penguin, but I saw it as a fumble recovery.

MTD, Sr.

You can't travel if you don't have the ball.

except ... ;)

Rare Exception ...
 

A player must be holding the ball (with one very rare exception) in order to travel.

One rare exception. It's when ... Wait ... I'm being told ... Fishing? What's it got to do with fishing? Never mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wznjAhZ0eWc


MTD, Sr.

Sorry is there an exception? I just reviewed section 44 and didn't find anything. Did learn something new in article 2 though:

3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.

You're just learning about a jump stop? :confused:

No I guess I was reading this visualizing it in slow motion, catch on one foot look around take a big leap off that foot in one direction and land with both feet.

4.44.5B


Who woulda thunk? ;)

Alright I had to read that a few times to visualize especially after ART. 5 started with A player holding the ball:

You know my reference was a case play (dots, not dashes), right?

Ah, I don't have my case play book at work.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without violating?
RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or request a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

Technically speaking 4-44-3b can also lead to an exception to the concept that player must be holding the ball in order to travel.

b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

Scenario: Player jumps to shoot, realizing his shot will be blocked simply drops the ball. He then lands.

His feet have returned to the floor before the ball has been released on a pass or try for goal. This attempt to circumvent the rules is a travel.

Not really.

The foot movement that makes it a travel occurred when the player was holding the ball.....the jump. The player lifted the pivot foot while holding the ball and then started a dribble.

I mean sure, but by that logic 4-44-5b (the exception noted earlier) is only a travel because the player had been holding the ball first.

The difference is that every other case involves some foot movement while holding the ball. The stand-up case doesn't.

Same

OK I can buy that ... you've convinced me!

Provided the player is the first to touch the ball after the ball bounces.
4.44.3 Situation A (d)

I don't have my case book in front of me but a quick google returned this. Is this the case play you're referring to?

4.44.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (a) slaps the ball out of A1’s hands; (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing the ball; (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or (d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it bounces . RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live. In (c), a traveling violation. In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Since the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation.

If so, in all of these the situation is a defender contacting the ball. The situation I described was a player dropping the ball on his own.

The case setup having a player touch the ball after it bounces does not make it a requirement for the ruling. It is an example. It does not say that it isn't a travel if the player doesn't touch it.

Fishing Expedition ...
 

Shouldn't you have let sdoebler find it himself?

Give a man a fish and he has food for a day. Teach a man to fish and he has to buy bamboo rods, graphite reels, monofilament lines, neoprene waders, creels, tackleboxes, lures, flies, spinners, worm rigs, slip sinkers, offset hooks, gore-tex hats, 20 pocket vests, fish finders, depth sounders, radar, boats, trailers, global positioning systems, coolers, and six-packs.

The defender touching the ball doesn’t change the situation. The player maintained control of the ball and dropped it to the floor. The ruling says violation if the player touches it first. Interestingly, the ruling doesn’t suggest dropping the ball to the floor is illegal because at that point we really don’t know what it is. The ruling suggests it could be a “pass” or “try” in b, c and d and the ball remains live, meaning if the ball touches or is touched by any other player it simply becomes a legal pass. That is the interpretation I adhere to. Others may have different interpretations they go by.

This is certainly a good point and I'm curious to see how others interpret it. Clearly it's hard to legislate intent, but when this occurs it's usually very evident it's not a pass attempt.

Rulebook defines a pass as: A pass is movement of the ball caused by a player who throws, bats or rolls the ball to another
player.

If a player jumps for a shot, second guesses it for whatever reason and drops the ball I don't see any way one could deem that a 'throw, bat or roll' to another player. Perhaps if it occurs with a teammate so near the shooter that he is able to immediately pick up the loose ball I'd consider not blowing it, but I've never seen that occur. Granted, I've only seen the drop ball scenario happen once in 7 years too.

May we please give this thread a rest. The game was my beloved Penguins sixth win of the season against twenty losses. They need all of the help they can get. :D

MTD, Sr.

This thread gonna die itself if we don't get video of the play.

Travelling all day back when I played.

I’m interested in folks’ thoughts on this play. Possession in question starts at 1:23. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kOXjuj-vzmg

Can anyone explain the logic to this interpretation? I was aware of it but hadn't given it much thought as it is pretty uncommon. But now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think it really make sense based on the rule, given that the player is allowed to dribble. You can have virtually the same action, but if there is any slight bounce to the ball, then standing and picking the ball up simply ends the dribble. But if the ball is absolutely still, then the same act is a travel. Seems (at best) an unnecessary interpretation to add, given that the defense could just grab the ball if it was placed on the ground -- but maybe i'm missing something.

It is viewed as an attempt to circumvent the rule. Without going through the efforts of changing various rules to cover this case, perhaps making them unnecessarily complicated, they decided a simple case to handle an oddball situation was enough.