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-   -   Administrative T discovered during 1 and 1 (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103534-administrative-t-discovered-during-1-1-a.html)

akmay20 Wed Feb 14, 2018 03:55pm

Administrative T discovered during 1 and 1
 
The other Administrative T thread prompted me to bring my question to you guys. BJV game last weekend with a veteran partner who has far more experience than I do (some JUCO and mostly Varsity). As my partner is reporting a foul against Team B, which will result in a 1 and 1 for Team A, the scorer advises him that A1 is in the book as A11 (or vice versa).

He calls me over and tells me what happened. I reply with so we shoot 1 and 1 for A with lanes clear, then 2 free throws for B and B's ball at division line. Partner tells me that we will shoot B's shots first, then administer the 1 and 1 as a live situation. My gut and knowledge told me that was wrong, but I saw no sense in arguing with someone who is certain they're correct, so we went with his call. Nobody complained so we moved on as always. My partner is a very good official, but is known to slack off somewhat when he has sub-varsity games.

I just wanted to get everyone's thoughts on this, so I have a concrete interpretation when another situation like this arises. As I'm sure you're all aware, this applies to 3.2.2 and 10.1.2...thanks for the help!

bob jenkins Wed Feb 14, 2018 03:59pm

He had the college rule. You had the HS rule.

akmay20 Wed Feb 14, 2018 04:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1017109)
He had the college rule. You had the HS rule.

Well that was easy. Thank you, sir.

frezer11 Wed Feb 14, 2018 05:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1017109)
He had the college rule. You had the HS rule.

I don't have a rule book handy, does the actual verbage say somewhere that you penalize in the order they were discovered? Or does it say the order they were called? Don't get me wrong, I agree entirely with your assessment of the ruling, just wondering about that small part-

jpgc99 Wed Feb 14, 2018 06:06pm

Even though you are not working college ball, it is often helpful to know the major rules differences between the codes. That way you are not so much “arguing with someone that is certain they are correct,” but rather saying, “yes, you are correct... in a college game. The high school rule is different. We administer in the order of occurrence.”

akmay20 Wed Feb 14, 2018 09:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpgc99 (Post 1017120)
Even though you are not working college ball, it is often helpful to know the major rules differences between the codes. That way you are not so much “arguing with someone that is certain they are correct,” but rather saying, “yes, you are correct... in a college game. The high school rule is different. We administer in the order of occurrence.”

You're absolutely right...My uncle is a D1 Women's official and my step-father works D2 and below, including HS. Having them as resources has been invaluable, and they've always been sure to incorporate both NCAAW and HS explanations, if different. As an up-and-comer (hopefully), guys I work with do tend to ask me a lot of rule/case questions, which I can usually answer due to what I've learned from those two and my own homework.

IMHO, if others could follow suit with NCAAW rules, things would be a lot simpler (i.e, allow dead ball fouls to be ruled common rather than T).

Raymond Thu Feb 15, 2018 08:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by akmay20 (Post 1017126)
....

IMHO, if others could follow suit with NCAAW rules, things would be a lot simpler (i.e, allow dead ball fouls to be ruled common rather than T).

That wouldn't be simpler for those of us who work NCAA-M.

bob jenkins Thu Feb 15, 2018 08:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1017139)
That wouldn't be simpler for those of us who work NCAA-M.


And I'm not sure it's always simpler than NFHS either.

BryanV21 Thu Feb 15, 2018 09:35am

In high school just remember this phrase... order of occurrence.

akmay20 Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:53pm

Simpler was a poor choice of words. I find some of the way their rules are set up to be favorable for game flow.

Coach Bill Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:29pm

I was thinking of this thread after this happened at the Coppin State NCAAM game tonight. Coppin is going to the line to shoot two after a shooting foul on Delaware St. when Coppin's head coach is called for an unsportsmanlike T. With both lanes cleared, they shot the Coppin free throws, then Delaware St. shot the two tech free throws. Then, Delaware St got the ball on the endline. Was this correct?

jpgc99 Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Bill (Post 1017464)
I was thinking of this thread after this happened at the Coppin State NCAAM game tonight. Coppin is going to the line to shoot two after a shooting foul on Delaware St. when Coppin's head coach is called for an unsportsmanlike T. With both lanes cleared, they shot the Coppin free throws, then Delaware St. shot the two tech free throws. Then, Delaware St got the ball on the endline. Was this correct?

As described, this is not correct in NCAA-M rules. The technical foul shots should have been shot first with play resuming at the point of interruption (the free throws for the shooting foul).

Do you have the time of the play so we can potentially get video?

Coach Bill Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:24am

Shooting foul was called with 1:08 left in the game.

Raymond Tue Feb 20, 2018 08:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Bill (Post 1017464)
I was thinking of this thread after this happened at the Coppin State NCAAM game tonight. Coppin is going to the line to shoot two after a shooting foul on Delaware St. when Coppin's head coach is called for an unsportsmanlike T. With both lanes cleared, they shot the Coppin free throws, then Delaware St. shot the two tech free throws. Then, Delaware St got the ball on the endline. Was this correct?

Highly disappointing if that's how they adjudicated that play. :(

Coach Bill Wed Feb 21, 2018 07:30pm

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