Popped a coach for clapping at me
 

3rd q varsity boys. Coach was a dick all first half to my partners but I was never really near him. I had a PC and we had a double whistle so I delayed to make sure my partner was going to give it up since it was in my PCA. I sold the charge signal hard, and coach didn’t like that I delayed. Crowd goes nuts, it gets quiet. Next possession down, his kid lays a brutal illegal screen and I get it. He keeps clapping after it’s over and the gym is quiet except for him clapping and staring me down.

Whack.

You guys popping him here? My partner asked if I could’ve avoided it. I told him I deal with middle school kids all day and don’t need to go to my hobby/job and deal with adults acting like kids. He got lots of leash in the first half and I think we’re to the point in the season where post season referrals are in and IDGAF what the coaches think.

Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy ...
 

Sometimes you just have to take care of business.

Last night. Boys varsity. Visiting head coach complains from the get go about the opponents climbing over his players' backs to get rebounds. At the first intermission, my partner and I get together and decide to keep our eye out for such illegal action. But, even with both of us looking, there aren't any "over the back" calls in the second period, so he continues to complain. Finally, with a few minutes to go in the half, he complains again about our lack of making his favorite call, and yells so that everybody in the gymnasium can hear him, "That's bullshit".

I hit him with a technical foul. He has to be reminded that he has to sit. He was fairly well behaved in the second half, especially after I reminded him that a second technical foul on him would result on him having to sit on the very cold team bus for the rest of the game.

At least he didn't ask why he wasn't given one of those new fangled official written in the scorebook warnings.

I don't like absolutes and I don't like saying what I would have done when I wasn't there to see what transpired.

Sometimes you just have to stick to your guns and penalize poor behavior. There are always going to be "holier than thou" officials and assigners (including some on this forum) who assume something was handled incorrectly whenever a T is dished out.

Making every excuse in the book to avoid enforcing sportsmanship rules (generally) does not serve officials well.

I would have done the same. Good work.

As far as your partner asking if it could have been avoided, it could have potentially been avoided if your partner handled this guy sooner.

I might have and might not have. I think you were there and have to decide if this action was continuous enough or distracting enough.

I gave a T this week for a coach basically telling me what to do. When I whacked him I said, "Never tell me what to do." He shut up and tried to get into my head more (I really did not care as it was a girls game) and he realized that dog was not hunting and he moved on. I know others would not have T'd him up the way I did, but I feel there is a certain level of respect I deserve and I know I give a lot of respect in return to coaches. But others think you should not do anything even if your "fun bucket" has filled up.

Based on what is said, I have little issue with it if you feel all his actions were directed at you.

You roll the dice, you might just crap out. Coach saw you were "Not that one." :D

Peace

So in a boys game would you have done the same thing?

Not being critical, genuinely wondering.

It needs to be addressed,. That could be a "knock it the F off", a formal warning, a T. All could be appropriate depending on the area, you, the coach, your history, the conference, your assigner, how much you (as a crew) had already talked to him, etc.

HTBT situation to say what I would do but a "show you up" clap plus stare down is enough for me to give you all the benefit of the doubt.

Agree 100%. The important thing is that this is addressed. If a T felt like the best option then so be it.

Yes. It is not your place as a coach to tell an official what to do. You would not like it as a coach if I told you what to call or how to coach, so do not tell me how to respond to a question. It is that simple.

Honestly, in my area, there are not a lot of good girls officials IMO. They act a fool with them and thinks that works with everyone. It does not.

Peace

"They act a fool with them and thinks that works with everyone. It does not".

I'm sorry, I thought I was somewhat street savoy, but could please further explain this comment?
Thank you

What is there to explain? Not everyone is going to react to the same behavior. You might just meet the wrong one on the day you are acting a fool.

Peace

I don't want to speak for him, but I believe he's suggesting that they get away with a lot of not-so-great behavior with the majority of officials in their games, and they're caught off guard when they get an official who won't let them get away with it.

Absolutely. He earned it. You whacking him was a mere formality.

The sportsmanship code read to the coaches and captains before every PIAA-sanctioned event reads, in part, "Actions meant to demean opposing contestants, teams, spectators and officials are not in the highest ideals of interscholastic education and will not be tolerated."

If that shoe fits....

Update
 

Here's a fun little update:

I had this team again later in the week. 2nd half, his team is down big. Foul count is 9-1 against his team, and his kids continue to play sloppy handsy defense. During a 1+1, he says "9-1" twice. I looked over and gave him my best death stare, and then my partner thought he heard him say "You guys should be ashamed of yourselves." He wasn't sure if it was someone behind him though, so he let it go. It goes to show that some people never learn.

Later in the game, he was complaining to me about one of the other players taunting his fans- "Tell so-and-so to stop taunting our fans." I told him "if I see it, I'll talk to him. I'm not going to talk to him if I don't see it." He goes "That's your job." I just walked away.

In our state, we fill out sportsmanship ratings for the boys' union and they go to the AD. I'd love to see how everyone else has rated him this year and if he's this way to everyone or if he just doesn't like me.

He has some talented kids, but he doesn't coach. He literally sits there and says nothing to his kids and complains to/about the officials. I truly feel bad for his kids because they deserve a coach and he acts more like a fan in the stands. Fortunately I won't see his team again until next year so hopefully he improves in that area by then.

Whack.

If it had been earlier in the game, I would but I think it was around 2:00 or so and we had a running clock due to the state's mercy rule. No reason to prolong our time with him at that point.

Codes like this read before games might as well not be read. Nobody listens to them and they become part of the background noise.

A few schools here have their PA announcers read them before the starting lineups are introduced, five minutes after the crew was forced to read them to head coaches and captains - doubling down on the useless.

What the .....???

Forced = Mandated = Required
 

In PA, there is a mandatory pre-game with head coaches and captains, at which we are required to read the sportsmanship statement verbatim. I do so, trying to give it meaning by my tone of voice--many refs recite it mechanically, in a monotone--then ask if there are any questions; there never are--then "good luck, have a great game and have fun."

I don't fool myself that the code is effective in controlling behavior--likewise, for example, the code in Legion baseball--but it is required, so I make the best of it. On occasion, I've dealt with a hectoring coach by repeating the part about demeaning officials will not be tolerated, like a warning.

Emphasis on "read," too. I got docked on an evaluation for having memorized the sportsmanship statement and, therefore, not holding the PIAA card in my hand and reading from it.

I'll leave it to your imagination which method I think seems more professional.

IMO there is a reason bc we fill out paperwork for every T so he would have even a further record. Not sure if you have that. Just bc it is late in the game he is not going to get a free crack at us. I would T him even without the report.

I am popping him. Its happened once or twice and I regret not popping the coach.

This sounds exactly like a few coaches I know, which I'm pretty sure is only an hour or so south of you :) I called my first technical a couple of weeks ago on a coach who clapped and yelled "Yay we got one!" when a foul was called against his opponent. I never knew how I'd know when it was time to finally whack a guy....then I knew.

In the words of the immortal Wayland Boot, "Those chances are slim and none, and Slim just left town."

Wow, that's crazy - in NJ we have the same requirement, I never even thought to memorize it! I feel silly reading from the card, and I am sure the kids feel just as stupid, standing there, watching me read from a card!

We have a real sportsmanship problem, and I've witnessed first hand that people think these cards/banners/announcements are actually solutions that fix things.

They don't. Anyone with half a brain realizes that these efforts are just paying lip service to the problem.

I've heard referees say something along the lines of "a good captains meeting goes a long way toward preventing problems." Normally, those are the R's whose captains meetings last forever.

Those are also officials who wouldn't whack someone if their lives depended on it.

Here's my philosophy:

"A good captains' meeting takes fewer than 11 seconds."

I’m dying to know where those coaches are and if he was one of them. Are you in this area or just know people around here?

I might have an idea of who you are after creeping all the Matts on Arbiter.

Or somebody like me would be a smart-ass and say something like "wasn't there a sportsmanship code read before the game?" :D

Funny, I probably would do the same thing.

Peace

I will say it this way, it does set a tone. It might not prevent anything, but it can set a tone that makes it clear that certain things are not to be tolerated or your expectations.

Peace

I agree, that's why I'm thankful we don't have a speech mandated to us (at least not yet...). I think that if you are required to give some broad spiel about sportsmanship that they hear every time, then the message you really want to get across can get drowned out.

I basically say, "Gentleman (or Ladies) it is about sportsmanship and if we are talking to you, you need to listen. But if you do not listen, then we are going to half to put air in the whistle and no one wants to see that. Put the ball in the basket and no will care what we are doing. Good luck."

Peace

Yup. Been there, done that.

"Take care of your knuckleheads before we have to."

Best response I came up with for this about mid season when I heard it was, “You did, they just wrote it in, and as a bonus, it came with a technical foul!



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We are required to read--not just recite, but actually read--a brief statement. I too think it is, for the most part, meaningless, but it does provide me with a stock answer I have employed on occasion, repeating one sentence from the code: "Actions meant to demean ... officials are not in the higher ideals of interscholastic education and will not be tolerated."

Coaches typically look embarrassed. In any event, this works for a play or two, then back to business as usual.

This stuff kills me...Your team is playing like garbage and you do NOTHING to address it?! Kid plays crap defense with their hands all over a ball handler or continually drops their arms creating contact on shot attempts, gets called for foul and coach is yelling "Good defense Johnny...keep it up" :rolleyes:

I totally understand what you are saying.

I had not given one in my career. I had taken a fair amount of heat on this board for not doing so. I had never felt the need as we have pretty respectful coaches in our area and they treat me well. My method of communication/handling offiicials has worked.

In the last couple of weeks, I have given two Ts. Not surprisingly they were to coaches from other areas that I never see. Not sure if they were testing me, or if they act like that where they usually play their games.

One basically told me my crew was pulling for the other team. Whack!!!!!

The other was making smart ass comments over and over and over, the same comments, about the fouls against his team. Whack!!!!

Felt good!!!!!!!

I understand why some of you guys hand out Ts on a regular basis. Sounds like you guys deal with a lot more stuff than we have to in our part of the world. I imagine what I gave Ts for, you guys see on a regular basis?

100% correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They aren't listening most of the time and couldn't care less about what we say!

During a 1+1, he says "9-1" twice.

Whack!

I was watching a college game this past week and the coach of one of the teams was awful. He complained the entire game and coached very little. His team was the weaker of the the two and things played out like one would expect. There it nothing really T worthy to share but he made a comment that is related to the topic of coaches saying stupid things. With about 6 minutes left in the game, he is down 15 or so, he says "we ain't getting no calls". I was keeping track of stats and his team had shot 31 free throws to the other teams 18 and he was complaining. :eek::mad::confused:

NY State you have to do a stupid sportsmanship talk to both teams at half court before each game that I always said was stupid. Have a few guys who are gung-ho about it but don't back it up. Usually they question T's I may have and I have a canned response "Were you wasting your breath in that sportsmanship talk you advocate for or do you not intend to back up what you say." It usually ends the conversation, and most others, the rest of the day but I'm ok with it.

We have a pre-game with captains where sportsmanship is the emphasis. Over the past two seasons, I have done about 150 games and called about 35 T's. I do not regret a single one. The only regret is that I didn't call 2 that I should have.

I'm with you. I grow weary of hearing officials pay lip service to how important sportsmanship is and then making every excuse in the book for not penalizing poor behavior.

And whenever I'm with an R that thinks the stupid pregame meeting (combined coaches/captains here) is his "time to shine" (and it happens plenty), I know I'm in for a long night.

I refuse to read sportsmanship card I make my partner do it if I ref somewhere it is required. Good coaches don’t need to be told about sportsmanship and bad coaches don’t listen

My pregame is
Introductions
Property equipped, no jewelry, watches or bracelets
Any questions?
Good luck get them ready