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-   -   Pacific/USF game (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103421-pacific-usf-game.html)

TopicalTropical Fri Jan 26, 2018 01:30am

Pacific/USF game
 
I was at this game and my first question is would the rules be the same for NFHS and NCAA?

Both teams were in bonus. This was in the second half, a few minutes left I think. The USF player shoots a contested 3 pointer. The ball is released and the ref calls an offensive foul on the shooter. I'm not sure what he did, maybe a grab after the shot, putting out his leg. I don't know. But it seemed clearly after the shot was released and the person I was with also thought it was after the ball hit the rim. I am pretty positive it was not a situation when the shooter fouled the defender while he still had control of the ball. Doesn't control end when the shot is released? Should it have been bonus fts for Pacific? They got the ball but no fts in a game they lost by 2.

Btw, I thought the game was officiated just fine but I was wondering about this.

JRutledge Fri Jan 26, 2018 01:40am

If it is a foul by a shooter before the player has gotten to the floor, then it is a team control foul and not free throws would be shot. And it is in NCAA illegal to stick out your leg or cause the contact by a shooter. And the option is to either not call anything or call an offensive foul. Without seeing the play I have no idea what was appropriate, just know this has been talked about in the last couple of years by JD Collins and the NCAA Men's Committee.

Peace

TopicalTropical Fri Jan 26, 2018 01:51am

Thanks. I would like to have the video but I don't think it is available. Maybe the ref blew his whistle late and the player did stick his leg out. We both thought the whistle occurred after the ball hit the rim so that is why I thought it might have been bonus fts because the shooter would have (probably) landed. He did not have MJ hangtime...

So for high school, if a shooter goes up and the ball is released but then he commits a foul while still in air, it would be a control foul and no bonus fts?

bob jenkins Fri Jan 26, 2018 08:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopicalTropical (Post 1015595)
So for high school, if a shooter goes up and the ball is released but then he commits a foul while still in air, it would be a control foul and no bonus fts?

Are you an official?

A PC foul is a common foul committed by a player while s/he is in control of the ball or by an airborne shooter (or words to that effect).

JRutledge Fri Jan 26, 2018 08:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopicalTropical (Post 1015595)
Thanks. I would like to have the video but I don't think it is available. Maybe the ref blew his whistle late and the player did stick his leg out. We both thought the whistle occurred after the ball hit the rim so that is why I thought it might have been bonus fts because the shooter would have (probably) landed. He did not have MJ hangtime...

So for high school, if a shooter goes up and the ball is released but then he commits a foul while still in the air, it would be a control foul and no bonus fts?

It is a player control foul (foul by the ball handler in simple terms). Also, there is no significance of when the ball hits the rim to when the whistle is blown. The foul is called when the action takes place, that might be with the ball through the rim in some cases.

Peace

TopicalTropical Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:25pm

minor update- it was a foul on the airborne shooter who stuck out his hip. The whistle was late and I had thought it was after he landed. I was watching there watching the game so I didn't have replay or tv commentary.

Also, in that game with Pacific intentionally missing a FT with one second two go as they were down by 2, a ref called a violation as a player outside of the three point line entering before contact. Right call but it kind of surprises me players don't know this rule. That being said, it is violated all the time in the NBA so they probably see those games.

JRutledge Fri Jan 26, 2018 01:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopicalTropical (Post 1015653)
minor update- it was a foul on the airborne shooter who stuck out his hip. The whistle was late and I had thought it was after he landed. I was watching there watching the game so I didn't have replay or tv commentary.

Also, in that game with Pacific intentionally missing a FT with one second two go as they were down by 2, a ref called a violation as a player outside of the three point line entering before contact. Right call but it kind of surprises me players don't know this rule. That being said, it is violated all the time in the NBA so they probably see those games.

It surprises me when players actually know the rule. Players act surprised when we do not call the game like the NBA or the rules they think applies to them at their NCAA or high school level.

Peace

Rich Fri Jan 26, 2018 01:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopicalTropical (Post 1015653)
minor update- it was a foul on the airborne shooter who stuck out his hip. The whistle was late and I had thought it was after he landed. I was watching there watching the game so I didn't have replay or tv commentary.

Also, in that game with Pacific intentionally missing a FT with one second two go as they were down by 2, a ref called a violation as a player outside of the three point line entering before contact. Right call but it kind of surprises me players don't know this rule. That being said, it is violated all the time in the NBA so they probably see those games.

Maybe it's not a violation in NBA games.

rstaggs23 Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 1015664)
Maybe it's not a violation in NBA games.



It is not a violation in the NBA.


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Rich Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rstaggs23 (Post 1015711)
It is not a violation in the NBA.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



That was my point. :)


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TopicalTropical Sat Jan 27, 2018 01:03am

https://twitter.com/TheWtv/status/95...49758668505088

different WCC game, but you can see the players in white clearly waiting for contact and the tip back. Nice play

I actually saw an NBA game earlier this year with a FT violation called when a player went in before the release from beyond the three point line. But I see it all the time. Especially Warriors game when they start moving in before the release. So many high school players don't know the rule it seems and neither do some college players. I'm guessing the NBA rule is on release anyone can go in but it is something that refs don't appear to really bother with.

TopicalTropical Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:26pm

I'm not going to post a separate thread about this as I am a Pacific fan but there was an intentional foul called on them with about five minutes to go I think and then later an ejection. Both times the BYU announcers disagreed with the calls. That's the home announcers disagreeing with the calls against Pacific. The intentional on the fast break I thought was at the same time and not quite a breakaway but whatever. The ejection was surprising and I'm not sure why as the player in question hadn't done anything before and was just playing hard and having a good game. To me it looked like an inadvertent play, sure you can say an F1 but I don't see any intent or malicious act to warrant an F2.
This game was streaming on BYUTv so not sure about a replay.

bob jenkins Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopicalTropical (Post 1015716)
https://twitter.com/TheWtv/status/95...49758668505088

different WCC game, but you can see the players in white clearly waiting for contact and the tip back. Nice play

I actually saw an NBA game earlier this year with a FT violation called when a player went in before the release from beyond the three point line. But I see it all the time. Especially Warriors game when they start moving in before the release. So many high school players don't know the rule it seems and neither do some college players. I'm guessing the NBA rule is on release anyone can go in but it is something that refs don't appear to really bother with.

Many times, it has to do with actually getting an advantage.

youngump Mon Jan 29, 2018 02:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopicalTropical (Post 1015751)
I'm not going to post a separate thread about this as I am a Pacific fan but there was an intentional foul called on them with about five minutes to go I think and then later an ejection. Both times the BYU announcers disagreed with the calls. That's the home announcers disagreeing with the calls against Pacific. The intentional on the fast break I thought was at the same time and not quite a breakaway but whatever. The ejection was surprising and I'm not sure why as the player in question hadn't done anything before and was just playing hard and having a good game. To me it looked like an inadvertent play, sure you can say an F1 but I don't see any intent or malicious act to warrant an F2.
This game was streaming on BYUTv so not sure about a replay.

I don't know about embedding them but the two fouls are available here. https://www.byutv.org/player/2f95dec...d6&listindex=0
Timestamps are: 1:46:18-28 and 1:52:45-

BigT Mon Jan 29, 2018 04:55pm

If there had been issues between these two and one drove him forearm up between the others legs I could see a F2... wow.


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