Question about a junior girls play
 

So... since team mates are allowed to touch each other and, in our league, back court defense is not allowed I'm wondering about something that I'm not sure is legal or not legal. The players in possession of the ball ran down and lined up on the half court line, joined hands but were facing the other teams basket. Because back court defense was not allowed the defending players were not able to cross the half court line to get in front of them. The guard dribbled into them where they formed a ring around the guard and closed hands together... there was really no way to reasonably break the ring without drawing a foul but i couldn't think of any reason why this technically wouldn't be allowed either. Anyway it was 11 year old girls so, there's bound to be some silliness anyway. Thoughts? Opinions?

If the defense simply stood between the offense and the basket and the offensive team made contact it would be a moving screen. This is a really dumb play though.

So, after the guard entered this ring of teammates, then what did they do?

That is a team technical foul.

Or a 5-second violation (9-10-1b)

And, I'd treat the division line the same as any other boundary line if the players tried to line up parallel to it and pass the ball on the BC side of the plane

Yes, you could go that direction too. I think the difference is the locking of hands/arms that the T requires while the 5-second rule only requires enclosure. Once they lock arms, I think that would push the call to the T.

Now, if you want to get silly with such a play, what if the offensive players formed such circle then placed the ball on the floor in the middle of their circle. The ball would not be in player control so it would be harder to call that...I think the T would be the only recourse.

Why not, as a defender, just walk around it, into the BC, and take the ball (if on the floor)? I realize that it is not allowed but who cares? The ref will stop the game and the defense will get what they accomplished. Yes, they could then inbound in the BC and do the same thing but come on, these are 11 year olds. What kind of coach teaches this to 11 year olds? Yikes.

How could 4 11-year-old girls occupy the entire half circle perimeter without being in an illegal position. If feet are greater than should width apart, in order to accomplish this, call an illegal screen, lol. Or, if that far apart, crawl through the legs. When the defender collapses them, call a foul on her, lol.

I do believe that locking arms/hands is illegal.;)

I would use a T as an absolute last resort in a game involving 11 year olds.

the good ol ring of fire defense.

I would go straight to a technical foul.

Or, in real life, consider what kind of game it is and tell the coach: "Knock it off. That isn't basketball."

Illegal ...
 

4-24-9: It is not legal to lock arms or grasp a teammate(s) in an effort to
restrict the movement of an opponent.

Team Technical: A team shall not: Allow players to lock arms or grasp a teammate(s) in an effort to
restrict the movement of an opponent.

Please, a rule citation for 'moving screen'?
Do you also call 'over-the-back' and 'reaching in'?

This is a public forum mainly populated by officials who know the proper terminology.

We would not want to adversely influence an inexperienced official or (God forbid) a fanboy if they should drop by.

Don't want to be seen as espousing 'fan speak'.

'Moving screen' is fan speak now??

If it is used as justification for calling a foul or a violation by someone presenting themselves as an official.
Since you seem to be in the know about this term, maybe you can help me understand whether to call a foul or a violation.

Sounds like a team party watching the Mighty Ducks or that soccer movie (Kicking and Screaming maybe?) in which essentially that play was used by the heroic underdogs, and tried to bring it to basketball. (I don't know about the hockey version, but the soccer version was illegal.)

Typical adult manipulation of a youth sports environment that focuses on the coach's desire to win rather than developing and teaching kids how to play.

Yes I am an official and moving screen is proper terminology. If the ring of players moved forward into the defending players this would constitute illegal contact, pretty simple.

Also as stated with rule 4-24-9 by Billymac it is a technical as played.

Thanks for your public forum information.

No, "moving screen" is not proper terminology. It may be commonly used, but it doesn't communicate something that is illegal. The contact that comes in combination with SOME "moving screens" may be illegal, but a moving screen is often legal and even sometimes with contact. So, calling a "moving screen" implies the wrong thing just as "being set" does.

Section 35

Art. 4. No player, while moving, shall set a screen that causes contact and delays an opponent from reaching a desired position.

Yes BUT, a player can set a screen while moving without creating the contact.

So not all moving screens are illegal.

Despite your name I'm gonna pretend you are an official.

So if you are reffing and coach asked you "justacoach, wasn't that a moving screen there?" you're gonna respond "No such thing Coach" like an ashole? Got it.

K next time an evaluator says that you missed a moving screen just tell him there is no issue with that because it may not have been illegal.

Ill be sure to add illegal moving screen to my future statements since no one will have any idea what I am talking about if I just say moving screen.

There is zero support for an accomplished official to have the term 'moving screen' in their vocabulary or thought process.
You sound like a guy who responds to a camp observer with a constant stream of 'yeah, but'.
Obviously you joined this forum with the desire to improve your skills. Learn to listen and heed the great advice that is directed your way from the many esteemed members here.

1. I can literally provide you with speeches and presentations from the top level officials using this vocabulary. I have listened to and interacted with NCAA evaluators, rules interpreters, and regional board members who use this terminology.

2. Literally the exact opposite of who I am, great to see you make outlandish judgements about people knowing little to nothing about them.

3. Yup, but you are not one of them

You said it was proper rule book terminology. It is not.

Don't get upset when you make a definitive statement and then get challenged.

Plenty of esteemed officials use "over-the-back" and "reaching". Doesn't make those phrases rule book terminology.

Me, I ignore it when coaches yell out about "moving screens" b/c most time they are referring to a play where an offensive player is legally running down the court and just happen to be in the way of a defender.

If you are going to split hairs I said it was proper terminology, not proper rule book terminology.

Based on the amount of clinicians and board members I have listened to use that "terminology" I deem it in the very least acceptable if not proper.

And if you include the next article (IIRC), it says that the screener can be moving at the time of contact if the movement is in the same path and direction. So, you can even have a "moving screen" with contact that still isn't a foul.

Just because a lot of good officials use the term doesn't make it proper.

I can accept that term when it is used by an ignorant coach or fan but not by an official . My response would include the term illegal contact.

So far as ashole, you will be shocked that 2 officials I have trained, from birth, are currently working games where they have numbers on the back of their officiating jerseys. Pretend you could ever attain that level, you disrespectful dip$hit.

Classy

Are we quite done?

I'll say "A moving screen is only illegal if the screener creates contact."

If the coach is someone who has been chirping all night or has been an a-hole themself, I may say "No such thing Coach."

Like I said before, most of the time I hear it is when an offensive player is simply moving in the same direction as a defender.

"common" < > "proper"

I also sometimes say "S/he tried to set an illegal screen, but missed." Mostly, imo, the coach wants to know that you were watching (and saw it) and will continue to watch for it.