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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 04:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Hereís the guy Iím talking about!

But no, I donít throw fans out every time they say a negative comment. These were fans who went out of their way to directly confront me or a partner. They can boo all they want or bitch about the foul count, but once they get personal like that all bets are off. They donít pay their $5 to just come and harass me all night.
AremRed could you ask site management to have a talk with them and let them know if they dont settle down they will be asked to leave the game. That way both of you win?
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 04:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
It's not what they say always, but how and where they say it from.
I nearly had a second row loudmouth fan removed this past Saturday. He said nothing vulgar, but because he chose to sit close to the court and be obnoxious in a relatively quiet gym, he was a distraction and thus one outburst away from getting removed. If he was sitting on the top row I doubt I wouldíve noticed him.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 04:37pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Nor am I. I don't remove fans because I get offended; I remove fans if and when I get distracted (and normally so do my partners and the participants).



Removing fans is not "going overboard." Heck if game management does its job, much of the time we shouldn't even have to get involved.

At a couple of the schools I've been to, the administrator will come up to us and say "just give me the look and I'll remove him/her."
You just nailed both of my points.

I don't get distracted. Some people do I guess.

I don't feel the need to handle problem fans because management can do it. I don't need to do it.

As I stated earlier, problems/fans and the ability of management must vary substantially from area to area. I guess I should feel blessed to deal with very good management.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 04:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
Random fan sitting in stands yells "You suck, ref" or "you're a cheater, ref", just ignore and keep working the game.

Random fan comes down to court, stands on sideline, points finger at me and screams "You're a cheater", game administration will be involved and fan will leave.

It's not what they say always, but how and where they say it from.
Perfectly stated!

I'm not letting a moron like that distract me or stop me from doing my job. Once they are within a couple of feet of me saying that, then we have a problem for management to deal with.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 06:14pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Removing an unruly fan is not a task taken lightly. It does not happen often. I am sure the removal discussed here was warranted. Maybe it would be a relief for the school to have a reason to address unacceptable behavior.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 06:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
Removing an unruly fan is not a task taken lightly. It does not happen often. I am sure the removal discussed here was warranted. Maybe it would be a relief for the school to have a reason to address unacceptable behavior.
A private school AD thanked me when I asked her to get an unruly parent in check. She wanted to say something to that parent for a long time but for political reasons did not. When I asked her to speak to that parent, I gave her cover so she could say the officials asked me. The parent behaved the rest of the season
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 06:56pm
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From my other referee life, we use the 3 p’s principal to determine if words or actions need to be dealt with by the referee, and I feel like they apply here as well. 1. Personal- Words or actions directed at a specific person; 2. Public- Can everyone hear it or just you and the offender; 3. Provacative- are the words or actions intended to incite further misconduct, raise the tension level, or show that obnoxious behavior is acceptable? If a fan’s, player’s, or coach’s behavior oversteps most/all of these bounds, then I think it is your duty as a referee to deal with it. As others have said, this doesn’t mean an immediate ejection, but perhaps having the site manager talk to the fan. Common sense rules here; we don’t want to be tossing every fan that utters a critical word, but we also don’t want to turn a blind eye to unacceptable behavior that will continue on to the next game and next referee.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 07:14pm
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Originally Posted by Paintguru View Post
but we also donít want to turn a blind eye to unacceptable behavior that will continue on to the next game and next referee.
Just wanted to highlight this. And this is also part of the reason why "thicker skin" should vary by level. A varsity ref doing a middle school game should not have the same thick skin at that game. Not for himself, but for the newbie doing the next game.

I would be surprised (absent additional facts) to see a parent in the stands tossed for the comments in AremRed's post from any of the varsity high school games I've watched this year (quality tournaments, high level league, lots of people in the stands). But I would not in the least be surprised for those same comments to lead to a removal from a quiet middle school gym.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 08:50pm
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Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
A varsity ref doing a middle school game should not have the same thick skin at that game. Not for himself, but for the newbie doing the next game.
That was my situation tonight. Middle school coach calls timeout specifically to call me over to discuss a couple of no calls. After giving him more explanation than I should have, then being informed we were not going to discuss any more calls the rest of the night, as I walked away he said "then call it both ways!" He found himself coaching from the bench the rest of the night. MS coaches don't always get experienced refs who will take care of inappropriate behavior in front of the kids. Maybe his behavior will be better the rest of the season.

To his credit, he sought me after the game to apologize.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 09:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
Random fan sitting in stands yells "You suck, ref" or "you're a cheater, ref", just ignore and keep working the game.

Random fan comes down to court, stands on sideline, points finger at me and screams "You're a cheater", game administration will be involved and fan will leave.

It's not what they say always, but how and where they say it from.
Agree completely.

I know sometimes questioning certain things here makes others say we are not "pro-official" or saying what fans/coaches would say, etc.

But without additional context I think its utterly ridiculous to throw out a fan for saying, "you're terrible" or "you should be ashamed of yourself."

And I can tell you while you might get public support, NONE of the major HS assigners in my area would privately support such action. And your schedule would reflect accordingly. It makes you that guy.

While I agree some fans are overly obnoxious, I actually find a little pleasure in ignoring these idiots who get all worked up over a scholastic contest while I simply go about doing my job and officiate the game.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 09:55pm
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In terms of coaches, if this was posed a month ago I would not have agreed with the assertion in the OP that their, and players, behavior has gotten worse this year.

But since Holiday tournament time it seems I've had a run of poor behavior.

- Had a kid walk by me while I was at the table after calling a foul on him and say, "of course that was on me. B!t ch arse, ref!" Whack. Flagrant T. (Just occurred to me this is actually a good example of what J Rut was talking about in the Teddy Valentine thread that was closed)

- Had an asst coach throw down a clipboard in reaction to a no-call. After I T'd him had the following exchange with the HC-

HC- What was that for?
Me- Your asst slammed a clipboard.....
HC- A T for that, seriously?
Me- (Paraphrasing after a blank stare meant to say are you really asking me that fn question).... That's about as easy an unsporting T an official can have in a scholastic game
HC- You havent said anything to the bench all game. We should get a warning first.

- Had a normally mild mannered HC who if you polled our association, I'd bet would easily be top 3 in terms of coaches with the best attitude, bench decorum, rapport with officials, etc. walk onto the court past the 3 point line yelling, "that's a foul." My table side partner beat me to the T by half a second. He was getting beat at home by almost 20 and his kids weren't playing hard, which I've never seen in that gym.

- Had several other games with coaches and players just being repeatedly whiny that has been addressed with Ts or other measures.

Not sure if its just the cyclical nature of things or what but the last 3-4 weeks have been a lot of fun.

I guess the one thing I'd throw out for discussion is how do folks see the official warning playing out in your games?

Are you or your partners using it? Have coaches who you've had to whack brought up they should get a warning first?
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 10:21pm
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Originally Posted by VaTerp View Post
I guess the one thing I'd throw out for discussion is how do folks see the official warning playing out in your games?

Are you or your partners using it? Have coaches who you've had to whack brought up they should get a warning first?
I've given three warnings this year, and all of them worked to the point where I wish I didn't even have to give them.

First one was a 9th grade coach who is also an official in our association who spent pre-game bragging about the varsity game he worked the night before. He then proceeded to moan the entire first quarter that his guys weren't getting a call. Warned him in the second quarter, not a peep after that.

Second game was a girls JV game with one coach who's a known yapper and one I've never had before. Home yapper finally wears me out in the third quarter, warned him, not a peep unless it ended with "sir". Not 30 seconds later, visiting coach gets his for complaining that his girls are being called for ticky tack fouls. Not a word from him the rest of the night.

I'm glad we have the option for a warning, but I wish coaches realized when to cool it so we didn't have to get that far. Overall, I think my coaches and players have been about the same to slightly better than last year, but fan behavior has gotten worse.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 10:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griblets View Post
That was my situation tonight. Middle school coach calls timeout specifically to call me over to discuss a couple of no calls. After giving him more explanation than I should have, then being informed we were not going to discuss any more calls the rest of the night, as I walked away he said "then call it both ways!" He found himself coaching from the bench the rest of the night. MS coaches don't always get experienced refs who will take care of inappropriate behavior in front of the kids. Maybe his behavior will be better the rest of the season.
I had something similar happen last year. Home team needs to foul to stop the clock and home player grabs the visiting team's ball handler from behind and appears to get a handful of jersey as well... an easy intentional foul call.

Home coach disagrees and calls time out to express his disagreement with me and ask about the call. Once it was obvious we were going in circles, I told him I'd be moving on and I left to go to my time out spot. He then followed me onto the court and said, "Well, I'm not!" That was one of my easier technical fouls to call .

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaTerp View Post
Are you or your partners using (the bench warning)?
I've used it once so far in a JV girls game to address inappropriate comments by players on the bench. As soon as I reported it and told the coach what happened, she addressed it immediately, and we didn't have a problem for the rest of the game.
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Last edited by Stat-Man; Thu Jan 18, 2018 at 10:55pm.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 18, 2018, 11:50pm
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Originally Posted by SD Referee View Post
... Speaking for myself, I take care of business ...
Correct me if I'm wrong (and it's definitely possible!), but weren't you the poster who within the last year or so spoke with pride about having never issued a coach a technical in a varsity game?
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 19, 2018, 12:02am
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Originally Posted by ODog View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong (and it's definitely possible!), but weren't you the poster who within the last year or so spoke with pride about having never issued a coach a technical in a varsity game?
Close, it was actually 2 years ago. Good memory.
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