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bwbuddy Wed Oct 08, 2003 06:57am

Are there any new HS rules this year concerning held balls (given the NCAA's experimenting with jumping rather than alternate possession in some conferences)?

Also, for clarification: if a jump ball tip is immediately held by two other opposing players, with no apparent possession by either, am I correct that the re-jump involves the two "held ball" players, or the original jumpers?

Mark Dexter Wed Oct 08, 2003 07:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by bwbuddy
Are there any new HS rules this year concerning held balls (given the NCAA's experimenting with jumping rather than alternate possession in some conferences)?


Nope.

Quote:


Also, for clarification: if a jump ball tip is immediately held by two other opposing players, with no apparent possession by either, am I correct that the re-jump involves the two "held ball" players, or the original jumpers?

Yup - held ball players.

Damian Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:29am

Rejump with the original players.
 
Similar to out of bounds with no possession.

bob jenkins Wed Oct 08, 2003 04:18pm

Re: Rejump with the original players.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Damian
Similar to out of bounds with no possession.
6-3-3 NOTE: If the AP procedure has not been established, the jump ball shall be between the two players involved in the center restraining circle.

Because of the placement of the note, it's confusing; it applies to all of 6-3-3, not just f.

Jurassic Referee Wed Oct 08, 2003 04:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bwbuddy

Also, for clarification: if a jump ball tip is immediately held by two other opposing players, with no apparent possession by either, am I correct that the re-jump involves the two "held ball" players, or the original jumpers?

The two "held ball players. Casebook play 6.3.1SitC(c).

Jurassic Referee Wed Oct 08, 2003 05:00pm

Re: Re: Rejump with the original players.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:

Originally posted by Damian
Similar to out of bounds with no possession.
6-3-3 NOTE: If the AP procedure has not been established, the jump ball shall be between the two players involved in the center restraining circle.

Because of the placement of the note, it's confusing; it applies to all of 6-3-3, not just f.

R6-3-3..."In all jump ball situations <b>other than the start of the game or each extra period</b>...".

This rule doesn't apply to the question asked by bwbuddy.

BktBallRef Wed Oct 08, 2003 05:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bwbuddy
Are there any new HS rules this year concerning held balls (given the NCAA's experimenting with jumping rather than alternate possession in some conferences)?
No, and let's pray they don't!

bob jenkins Thu Oct 09, 2003 07:56am

Re: Re: Re: Rejump with the original players.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:

Originally posted by Damian
Similar to out of bounds with no possession.
6-3-3 NOTE: If the AP procedure has not been established, the jump ball shall be between the two players involved in the center restraining circle.

Because of the placement of the note, it's confusing; it applies to all of 6-3-3, not just f.

R6-3-3..."In all jump ball situations <b>other than the start of the game or each extra period</b>...".

This rule doesn't apply to the question asked by bwbuddy.

The game had already started (with the first jump ball), so the rule does apply -- we're applying it to the second jump.

Jurassic Referee Thu Oct 09, 2003 08:27am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Rejump with the original players.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:

Originally posted by Damian
Similar to out of bounds with no possession.
6-3-3 NOTE: If the AP procedure has not been established, the jump ball shall be between the two players involved in the center restraining circle.

Because of the placement of the note, it's confusing; it applies to all of 6-3-3, not just f.

R6-3-3..."In all jump ball situations <b>other than the start of the game or each extra period</b>...".

This rule doesn't apply to the question asked by bwbuddy.

The game had already started (with the first jump ball), so the rule does apply -- we're applying it to the second jump.

Bob,if you did that,you would be directly going aginst the direction of casebook play 6.3.1SitC(c). That cite is labelled "<b>Jump Ball To Start The Game</b>",and says that if A1 and B1 jump,and then A2 and B2 simultaneously control the ball,then A2 and B2 will then jump.Isn't it obvious that R6-3-3 isn't being applied? If it was,then A1 & B1 would re-jump.If the ball went OOB with no possession either,and A2 & B2 were the last two to touch it simultaneously inbounds after the jump,then A2 and B2 would jump also.Again R6-3-3 doesn't apply according to casebook play 6.3.1SitC(b).

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 9th, 2003 at 08:31 AM]

bob jenkins Thu Oct 09, 2003 09:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rejump with the original players.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Bob,if you did that,you would be directly going aginst the direction of casebook play 6.3.1SitC(c). That cite is labelled "<b>Jump Ball To Start The Game</b>",and says that if A1 and B1 jump,and then A2 and B2 simultaneously control the ball,then A2 and B2 will then jump.Isn't it obvious that R6-3-3 isn't being applied? If it was,then A1 & B1 would re-jump.If the ball went OOB with no possession either,and A2 & B2 were the last two to touch it simultaneously inbounds after the jump,then A2 and B2 would jump also.Again R6-3-3 doesn't apply according to casebook play 6.3.1SitC(b).

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 9th, 2003 at 08:31 AM]
[/QUOTE]

Either I'm misreading something, or you are.

I agree that if A1 and B1 jump initially, and A2 and B2 tie it up, that A2 and B2 will jump.

That's what I think the NOTE to 6-3-3 says ("jump between the two players involved").

Maybe the "in the center circle" in confusing -- that's where the rejump occurs (even if the held ball is on one of the FT lines), not a modification to who jumps (not "those who were involved in the original center-circle jump").



Jurassic Referee Thu Oct 09, 2003 09:41am

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
[/B]
Either I'm misreading something, or you are.

I agree that if A1 and B1 jump initially, and A2 and B2 tie it up, that A2 and B2 will jump.

That's what I think the NOTE to 6-3-3 says ("jump between the two players involved").

[/B][/QUOTE]I think that I mighta been misreading you.I thought that you were agreeing with Damian.We certainly agree on what the proper call should be.

Nevermind.

Btw,I can see how the note could possibly apply to most of R6-3-3,but I still can't think of any way that you would end up in a FT shooting situation,as in 6-3-3(c),without an AP being established.Can you?

ChuckElias Thu Oct 09, 2003 09:53am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Btw,I can see how the note could possibly apply to most of R6-3-3,but I still can't think of any way that you would end up in a FT shooting situation,as in 6-3-3(c),without an AP being established.Can you?
How about: during pre-game warm-ups B1 dunks the ball. B1 is assessed a technical foul. To begin the game A1 attempts the two FTs. (Arrow isn't set until the throw-in after the FTs.) While A1 is holding the ball for the second FT, B3 accidently steps inside the FT circle. A1's FT fails to hit the rim.

Double FT violation before the AP has been established. Does that work?

bob jenkins Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:26am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Btw,I can see how the note could possibly apply to most of R6-3-3,but I still can't think of any way that you would end up in a FT shooting situation,as in 6-3-3(c),without an AP being established.Can you?
How about: during pre-game warm-ups B1 dunks the ball. B1 is assessed a technical foul. To begin the game A1 attempts the two FTs. (Arrow isn't set until the throw-in after the FTs.) While A1 is holding the ball for the second FT, B3 accidently steps inside the FT circle. A1's FT fails to hit the rim.

Double FT violation before the AP has been established. Does that work?

No, because A would still get the ball as part of the penalty for the T.

And, I can't think of a way either. Maybe it's left over from some prior rule change (for example, if the arrow used to be not set until the throw-in on a foul before posession, then: Foul during jump, simultaneous violation during FT ==> jump between violators. )

ChuckElias Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:47am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
No, because A would still get the ball as part of the penalty for the T.
Duh. Obviously. Sorry Sigh. :rolleyes:

rainmaker Thu Oct 09, 2003 05:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
How about: during pre-game warm-ups B1 dunks the ball. B1 is assessed a technical foul. To begin the game A1 attempts the two FTs. (Arrow isn't set until the throw-in after the FTs.) While A1 is holding the ball for the second FT, B3 accidently steps inside the FT circle. A1's FT fails to hit the rim.

Double FT violation before the AP has been established. Does that work?

No, because A would still get the ball as part of the penalty for the T.

Okay, but Chuck, that was a great try! I am in awe!


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