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UNIgiantslayers Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:26am

Blarge Last Night
 
Worked with a notorious ball watcher. As an example, he called a foul on the opposite wing beyond the 3 point line as the lead.

Here's the situation. I was the T, not involved in the play at all (other than being the R and having to explain to table and coaches what we had to do). Drive comes out of C's primary, contact in C's primary. As C, you probably wouldn't expect to have a double whistle on this. So he whistles, goes immediately to blocking signal. At the exact same time, L (across the lane) comes out with PC signal. C heads to table to report, still not realizing what happened. L also is so out of sync that he doesn't realize the other guy had a block.

I was the R, and we pregamed always have eye contact on double whistles and have a secondary whistle on things outside of your primary. That obviously didn't happen. This was 2 min. into the game, so neither coach was impressed when I told them we have to go double foul and POI. The rest of the game was not smooth. This is the second time I've worked with this guy this season, and the second time he's done this with bad PC calls. His reasoning both times has been "if the defender is even close to getting there in time, I'm rewarding them for taking a hit."

BryanV21 Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers (Post 1014581)
Worked with a notorious ball watcher. As an example, he called a foul on the opposite wing beyond the 3 point line as the lead.

Here's the situation. I was the T, not involved in the play at all (other than being the R and having to explain to table and coaches what we had to do). Drive comes out of C's primary, contact in C's primary. As C, you probably wouldn't expect to have a double whistle on this. So he whistles, goes immediately to blocking signal. At the exact same time, L (across the lane) comes out with PC signal. C heads to table to report, still not realizing what happened. L also is so out of sync that he doesn't realize the other guy had a block.

I was the R, and we pregamed always have eye contact on double whistles and have a secondary whistle on things outside of your primary. That obviously didn't happen. This was 2 min. into the game, so neither coach was impressed when I told them we have to go double foul and POI. The rest of the game was not smooth. This is the second time I've worked with this guy this season, and the second time he's done this with bad PC calls. His reasoning both times has been "if the defender is even close to getting there in time, I'm rewarding them for taking a hit."

"While your reason for calling a PC foul is bad enough, how about STAYING IN YOUR PRIMARY!"

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bob jenkins Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers (Post 1014581)
Drive comes out of C's primary, contact in C's primary. As C, you probably wouldn't expect to have a double whistle on this. So he whistles, goes immediately to blocking signal. At the exact same time, L (across the lane) comes out with PC signal.

How close to the lane was it, and was it a primary or secondary defender?

And, for whatever reason, it's a lot easier to "hold and scan" from C (or T) than it is from L.

UNIgiantslayers Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1014583)
How close to the lane was it, and was it a primary or secondary defender?

And, for whatever reason, it's a lot easier to "hold and scan" from C (or T) than it is from L.

Tried to post a pic, but it was too big.

Play started outside 3 point line, ended about 3-4 feet from lane, just below FT line extended.

ETA: Primary defender.

sdoebler Fri Jan 12, 2018 01:26pm

Personally with a block/charge call as T or C I like to always be slow to show, even in your primary for this reason. As the C you usually can't see the L through the bodies and if you really blow at the exact same time it can be difficult to recognize.

Was the L wrong in this situation? Yes

If you went with my method and the C was slow to show and the L came out hard with the wrong call do you have to go with it? Yes

Is a wrong call here better than a double foul? Well I think that it looks better for the crew, it is worse obviously for the offensive team but I would prefer this happening to what did happen. Debatable

youngump Fri Jan 12, 2018 01:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdoebler (Post 1014591)
If you went with my method and the C was slow to show and the L came out hard with the wrong call do you have to go with it? Yes

Is a wrong call here better than a double foul? Well I think that it looks better for the crew, it is worse obviously for the offensive team but I would prefer this happening to what did happen. Debatable

Your second paragraph seems at odds with your first. I lurk here but always find the blarge arguments interesting and read them with popcorn. But in all that, I don't ever remember saying that the fact that one official had a preliminary signal meant the other couldn't give his preliminary. (Just that he shouldn't, because I think universal consensus is that for GM purposes you're never going to intentionally cause a blarge even if you're sure your call was the right one).

UNIgiantslayers Fri Jan 12, 2018 01:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdoebler (Post 1014591)
Is a wrong call here better than a double foul? Well I think that it looks better for the crew, it is worse obviously for the offensive team but I would prefer this happening to what did happen. Debatable

The kicker is the coach who the call would have gone against came up to us after the game and told us it was absolutely a block. Based on that, both partners' descriptions of what they saw, and the reasoning of the L for his PC call(s), I absolutely think that a PC foul would have been a terrible call. The double foul made us look bad as a crew in my opinion and sort of ruined our credibility for the rest of the game.

Raymond Fri Jan 12, 2018 02:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 1014593)
Your second paragraph seems at odds with your first. I lurk here but always find the blarge arguments interesting and read them with popcorn. But in all that, I don't ever remember saying that the fact that one official had a preliminary signal meant the other couldn't give his preliminary. (Just that he shouldn't, because I think universal consensus is that for GM purposes you're never going to intentionally cause a blarge even if you're sure your call was the right one).

Once the "other" official gives a conflicting preliminary, you're stuck with a blarge.

sdoebler Fri Jan 12, 2018 04:04pm

I think that we are all saying the same thing...

SC Official Fri Jan 12, 2018 05:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1014604)
Once the "other" official gives a conflicting preliminary, you're stuck with a blarge.

One of our posters will be along shortly to dispute this.

BlueDevilRef Fri Jan 12, 2018 07:45pm

I abhor the fact this is a double foul. Why would we not be able to get together and figure out who actually fouled who? We make judgement calls all game long and this is the one we just have to swallow and not fix? Has always seemed stupid to me.


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BryanV21 Fri Jan 12, 2018 08:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef (Post 1014616)
I abhor the fact this is a double foul. Why would we not be able to get together and figure out who actually fouled who? We make judgement calls all game long and this is the one we just have to swallow and not fix? Has always seemed stupid to me.


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I completely agree. But it is what it is.

BlueDevilRef Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:03pm

Has there been a push at any time to change it to be like NCAAW?


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AremRed Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef (Post 1014621)
Has there been a push at any time to change it to be like NCAAW?

It's one of the 17 rules and mechanics changes I am submitting to the NFHS rules committee this spring.

BlueDevilRef Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 1014622)
It's one of the 17 rules and mechanics changes I am submitting to the NFHS rules committee this spring.



Tell em i vote for it as well

Care to share the other 16?


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