I submitted a thread last year: http://www.officialforum.com/showthr...?threadid=6653
Well, tomorrow I was scheduled to go and call at the school where this incident took place. Tonight, the principal calls me and asks where I am scheduled to be tomorrow. I tell him at his place. He says that this not acceptable because the idiot principal from the other school has announced that his school will not play if I am calling. I tell him that 1. That ain't right to let this guy dictate who the officials will be or not be on the road. 2. I'm not the one to call about this problem, but he should speak to the assignment secretary, and by the way isn't this kind of short notice? I told him the guy was bluffing and wouldn't really leave and as far as I was concerned he proved this when they stayed to play the boys game after this rather large incident at the end of the girls game during which he made this same threat. (We'll get on the bus and go home.) I told the local principal ( a friend of mine) that while I was not totally unsympathetic to the rather difficult spot in which he was placed, there was no way that this guy should be allowed to get away with this.
I did not hear from the assignment secretary tonight, and am rather anxious to hear his reaction. I am both dumbfounded and sickened by the whole situation. Any thoughts from the board on this whole ugly mess would be appreciated.

justa,
If the person that signed my contract gave me that notice, I would agree to cancel my contract.
mick

illegal substitution
 

good luck I hope your assignor supports you.---Maybe you should tape the game to cover your A--.

justa, I'm gonna side with mick here. I would want to do the game, but if the assignor (whether it's an independent assigning secretary or the school's AD) says I'm off the game, then I go along. You don't want to become the problem.

I wouldn't wait for his reaction, I'd call him. Tell your friend, the local principal, that you'll get back to him, call the assigning secretary and get it straightened out at that point. But someone besides you should be dealing with that principal. He's way too upset about it. Why isn't his superior notified about his very immature and unprofessional behavior and attitude? The only question I have is the part about the local principal being your firend, and that this keeps happening at your games when those two schools play each other. Does this obnoxious principal know that you're friends? Perhaps he feels that your friendship is affecting your work. I'm not saying that you ARE playing favorites, only that it might be adding to HIS perceptions of unfairness. Why does your assigning secretary keep on giving you the games between these two teams? That seems unwise. Give the whole thing some space, deal with the principal outside the sweatbox, and perhaps there can be some forgiveness in the future.

My thoughts: call your assignor immediately, make sure he knows what's going on, remind him of any late-cancellation clauses in your contract (hopefully you do have them), and if you are taken off the game make sure you get paid.

BTW, I would add if you have the option to scratch schools, scratch this one. Aint worth it.

[Edited by Dan_ref on Oct 6th, 2003 at 10:18 AM]

I know this doesn't help you, but Rut had posted an e-mail a while back about the things our local associations do for us. This is one of the nice things - getting "in between" an official and school in a situation like this. Seems awfully awkward and powerless to have to deal with it directly.

Z

I do not allow a school to dictate who I do/do not send to an assignment.
If there are reasons to make a change (poor track record of official, first hand account of problems, etc.) then we may send someone else.
BUT, it sets a very bad precedent when you allow others to set your schedule for you.

If I were the home team principal, I'd keep things the way they are - at worst, we get a forfeit.

geez...
 

Isn't it sad that the focus has been taken off the kids and THEIR game because some idiot doesn't like a certain ref? He has spent almost a years worth of hate on this one incident. Sounds like a great role model.
I'd get out but get paid. Wouldn't want this a$$ to ruin the game for the players.
BTW.. If you pull your kids off the floor in Michigan, for any reason, you'd get some kind of punishment.

Pardon my French, but....

Screw 'em.

Chuck had it right. You are not the problem.

Go ref the game, go out of your way to be professional (even more so than usual), and see what happens. If the moron principal, or coach, or anyone else *****es to you, be nice.

With you taking the high road, if people still think you're the problem, then next time around, maybe the assigning secretary should think twice.

What a pathetic bunch of idiots this school is. Sheesh.

Based on the time of your post, it appears that you just call the call from the home school.

First: If I am correct about the time frame regarding the telephone call from the home school, then the home school was not acting in a professional manner by waiting until less that 24 hours before game time to contact you about a possible problem. As soon as the telephone call from the home school was over contact you partner(s) for the game.

Second: I do not know how you received your assigment for this game. Was it by your local officials association assigner or a league assigner? In either case, you need to contact him as soon as possible after the telephone from the home school and tell him what you were told.

Third: Did you have a contract for this game? If you have a contract for the game, then by all means do show up for the game. A telephone call from the home school the night before does not absolve you of your contractural duties to officiate the game. If you do not show up to officiate the game, then the home school can hold you in breach of contract. If you show up to officiate and the school then tells you they do not want you to officiate, tell the game manager that you will gladly go home once you have been paid for the game. If the school refuses to pay you then it is in breach of contract with you. Under no circumstances should you leave until you have been paid or the game as been completed. The school can order you to leave the building but has no legal ground to do so. You have a contract with them that you are entitled to enforce.

I agree with everything everyone has said here, but I'm still wondering about the relationship of Just Another Ref with the local principal who received the call from the less-than-exemplary principal. And why is the local principal calling Just Another Ref, instead of the assigning secretary? Looking back over the post from a year ago, this problem has been brewing for several years. I'm wondering why when these two schools play, they keep getting this particular ref. It sounds like we may not be hearing the whole story.

I know that sounds accusatory towards Just Another Ref, and I don't mean it that way. I just wish I could ask the assigning secretary why he is doing it this way.

This is the first time that I have been assigned a game with the problem principal's school since the incident last year, and it was not a deliberate thing. Game assignments around here are a REALLY casual thing, done on a week-to-week, or even a game by game basis. The assignor looks at his list of schools to see which ones have home games on a given date and makes the assignment. Often he does not even pay any attention to who the opponent is. What difference should it make, really? My partner and I for this game got the assignment simply because of our location.
The school where the game took place is 10 miles from me, and the guy they sent to replace me lives another 50 or so miles down the road. All this in the name of following the path of least resistance. I have no problem with never calling another game for the problem school. What I do have a big problem with is letting this guy dictate to the rest of us. My friend the local principal admitted that he was at fault for letting this slide until the last minute.
That, I think, was a given. But my next question was what if the visiting principal (or coach for that matter) find a problem with one or both guys tonight and adds
their names to the black list. I was assured that this would not be allowed. Well the question then is where to draw the line and in my opinion one name was too many.
But, it's all out of my hands and I shall attempt to move forward from here.

[Edited by just another ref on Oct 6th, 2003 at 11:55 PM]

This is a non issue. When I refer to this principal/coach as a friend, I mean that he is someone that I have known for a long time and get along with well. This is true of someone or other at all the local schools and some that are not so local. I would be friends with the people at the problem school if given half a chance. On a related note, this is how things sometimes work out around here. The first varsity game I ever called, (a morning-of-the-game phone call to fill in for somebody else emergency type thing) the coaches on one bench were: 1. A guy I went to high school with who farms right next door to me now.
2. My old high school coach.

Mother of all conflict of interest stories? No big deal.
I call 'em like I see 'em and as long as both sides complain some, (they did) I feel like everything is all right, or as all right as it can be in this business.

I wasn't doubting your integrity for a second. I was just wondering what the further away principal was thinking. I also appreciate the explanation of how your assignments are given. I just couldn't tell what the whole set-up was.

And I agree that this Principal Prickly shouldn't be dictating who does which games. I would think that with a conflict this long-standing, there should be some kind of outside interference, such as from his school board, or some higher up in your ref structure to try to resolve the issue, and deal with his attitude. This guy has a serious problem.

Checking in kind of early this morning, Juulie! :)

If I decided not to play a game because of who the official was, I'd probably be fired before our bus got back to the school.

This is exactly what I thought. The local principal said he really needed to play the game at all cost. "What if this guy really does put his people back on the bus and leaves. What do we do about the parents here who came to see a game?"

On the flipside, how would you like to be the other principal and explain to your kids' parents. "We didn't play because we didn't like one of the officials."

I was certain that the guy was bluffing. But, at the game last night my replacement ( the guy from 60 miles away) was a few minutes late and it was mentioned that I was originally scheduled but a change had been made that morning. Now it turns out the hostile principal was not at the game, but at the mention of my name the coach raised an eyebrow and commented that he was glad of the change or
"....we could not have stayed and played." Apparently he had been given instructions on this matter. My concerns for myself here are minimal. Imagine having to deal with this guy on a daily basis. One would have to guess that this is not the only thing he has carried to an extreme.

What school board could possibly put up with this guy? I cannot imagine.

BTW, what's the significance of your sig line? I don't get it... "Scientific fact: One acre of two and a half bale cotton is equal to, uh, uh, a whole bunch of basketball games."

It's a money reference. I farm for a living (if you can call this living) and I referee to keep from being burdened with having too many friends. The two and a half bale thing means that this is the first outstanding crop I have had in a long time and I am still overwhelmed by it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by just another ref

Quote:

It's a money reference. I farm for a living (if you can call this living) and I referee to keep from being burdened with having too many friends. The two and a half bale thing means that this is the first outstanding crop I have had in a long time and I am still overwhelmed by it.

Good goin', justa!
Work is supposed to pay more than play, even if you are your own boss.
mick

:D

I think Juulie's gonna need you to explain that one too!
(Get in touch with your masculine side Juulie, your masculine side ;) )

btw justa, congrats on this summer's work

This is simple.
 

By way of background, I assign several thousand games each season, but you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. Did the assignment come from an assignor? The principla should have had the brains to tell the AD to call the assignor. Period. Let them work it out. All you need hear from the assignor - who probably shouldn't have put you in the game in the first place - is that you're going to do a different game tomorrow. It's ludicrously late for the issue to come up, but you're not dealing with motor scooter scientists.

I had a situation happen to me similar to this about 6 or 7 years ago. I had an Principal try to get me off a conference tournament game that happen to be held at his school. To make a long story short, I did not do the game. I had someone do the game in my place (we switched games) and it worked out for the best. I would have like to have done the game I was scheduled, but it would have been a no win situation.

The ironic thing, I ended up doing a game at this school about a year later (the head coach needed a replacement). My partner and I were asked to cover the game and this principal did not say much of anything to me. I wanted to, but I stayed professional.

I guess this time has already passed, but chalk it up to experience and move on. You just will know what to do when screwy situations happen the next time.

Peace

Jeff -- This just proves my belief that you are a great ref. Staying professional is absolutely the best way to handle this -- something I'm still working on. Also, I like your new signature line.

Dan -- I'm working on it, but at this time in life, the estrogen thing is really more in control.

Justa -- My folks live in the mid-west, and know many farmers who struggle mightily. Congrats on making a tough situation into a victory. May all your efforts be as successful!