New Rule 4-48 and a Visiting Team Scorer at the Table

[BillyMac]

I may not have the rules to back me, but if the official scorer, or the official timekeeper, or the visiting scorekeeper, is giving me a problem (acting as a fan for team, not paying attention, not doing their job correctly, etc.), I have no problem asking game management to replace any, or all of them. This is especially the case in nonschool games (AAU, travel, recreation, etc.), but is also the case in school games in which table responsibilities may be fulfilled by students. In a school game with adult table personnel, I may pause before replacing them, and will certainly check with my partner, but I would certainly consider replacing them, maybe not charging any type of technical bench personnel foul, but certainly replacing them; and they can go wherever they want, including their team bench, just not at the table as a member of the officiating team.

Again, I may not have the rules to back me, so chastise me if you must. Let the chastising begin. I'm sure that I will deserve it, and I'm ready to take my punishment.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I may not have the rules to back me, but if the official scorer, or the official timekeeper, or the visiting scorekeeper, is giving me a problem (acting as a fan for team, not paying attention, not doing their job correctly, etc.), I have no problem asking game management to replace any, or all of them. This is especially the case in nonschool games (AAU, travel, recreation, etc.), but is also the case in school games in which table responsibilities may be fulfilled by students. In a school game with adult table personnel, I may pause before replacing them, and will certainly check with my partner, but I would certainly consider replacing them, maybe not charging any type of technical bench personnel foul, but certainly replacing them; and they can go wherever they want, including their team bench, just not at the table as a member of the officiating team.

Again, I may not have the rules to back me, so chastise me if you must. Let the chastising begin. I'm sure that I will deserve it, and I'm ready to take my punishment.

BM, thanx for your response, but it didn't address the question. ("Thank you, sir. May I have another?") The question was whether addressing the behavior of a visitors' scorer justifies a 4-48 warning to the head coach. Reference to the praseology of 4-48 and 4-32-4 are significant to the question, so I'll await the time when you have a chance to check those out in your rules book. Then let's see what you say.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

The question was whether addressing the behavior of a visitors' scorer justifies a 4-48 warning to the head coach.

When at the table, he's part of the officiating crew, he's not bench personnel. I won't invoke the "warning" rule. However if I replace him and he moves to the bench, I can whack him to the ends of the Earth (adult personnel can be ejected), no more warning, indirect to head coach, who sits down.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When at the table, he's part of the officiating crew, he's not bench personnel. I won't invoke the "warning" rule. However if I replace him and he moves to the bench, I can whack him to the ends of the Earth (adult personnel can be ejected), no more warning, indirect to head coach, who sits down.

Billy:

If I have to remove Table Personnel that person is not going to remain in building.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

If I have to remove Table Personnel that person is not going to remain in building.

Maybe if he's acting as an unsporting fan, sure, go for it. But if he's just not paying attention, or is incompetent for same other reason, why make him sit on a cold bus with the bus driver?

[JRutledge]

If someone is at the actual table representing the team to verify information to record what is in the scorebook, I am not even considering them in their actions as bench personnel. If they ever cause a problem, I will have them removed. Only twice in my career have I ever had an issue where they left the table and they did it on their own after being admonished for causing issues that had to be addressed with the official book person. I had an incident that the table personnel got in a fight with each other over what was reported. In no way would I ever give a T when someone is sitting at that table. If they are on the bench, that is a different story (which is actually the most common way visitors use that person in games in my experience).

Peace

[SC Official]

I am not whacking table personnel. There is no rules support for that.

Depending on what mood I'm in/how obnoxious the offender is, (s)he might get to go sit in the stands and act like a fanboy (while leaving the book at the table), or I might have him/her removed entirely. If it's the home (official) scorer acting up, I'm likely not waiting for a replacement unless one is available immediately; I'll just make the visiting book the official one and tell the home coach to direct all inquiries to the visiting scorer.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... If they are on the bench, that is a different story (which is actually the most common way visitors use that person in games in my experience).

I'm always surprised (maybe I shouldn't be after twelve years as a Forum member) when I find out how differently things are done in various regions of the country. Not right. Not wrong. Not better. Not worse. Just different.

Here in Connecticut, we have a visiting "scorekeeper" at the table 99% of the time in all scholastic games (middle school, high school freshman, junior varsity, and varsity). 100% at the high school level, even in freshman games.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If they are on the bench, that is a different story (which is actually the most common way visitors use that person in games in my experience).

Your games don't have a scorer for the visiting team sitting at the table?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I may not have the rules to back me, but if the official scorer, or the official timekeeper, or the visiting scorekeeper, is giving me a problem (acting as a fan for team, not paying attention, not doing their job correctly, etc.), I have no problem asking game management to replace any, or all of them. This is especially the case in nonschool games (AAU, travel, recreation, etc.), but is also the case in school games in which table responsibilities may be fulfilled by students. In a school game with adult table personnel, I may pause before replacing them, and will certainly check with my partner, but I would certainly consider replacing them, maybe not charging any type of technical bench personnel foul, but certainly replacing them; and they can go wherever they want, including their team bench, just not at the table as a member of the officiating team.

Again, I may not have the rules to back me, so chastise me if you must. Let the chastising begin. I'm sure that I will deserve it, and I'm ready to take my punishment.

Billy:

You are correct. One could and should consider him as an Assistant Scorer and you can and should have him or her removed from the gym by game management if necessary.

MTD, Sr.