Ball Lodges
 

More officials ..more debates..LOL

Rulings on resuming play when the ball lodges between the rim and backboard:

1) On a shot?

2) On a Throw In ?

3) On a Free Throw (Last one)?

Thanks!

You're not a rookie anymore with over 500 posts, so you should know the answer to all of these - there's no ambiguity. Take a guess at least.

Normally I'm happy to just provide answers, but it's test-taking season, so I'm leery of the OP's motive. These are not hard questions, so will leave it to the OP to look up.

I will say that I never thought I'd see #3 happen. Until it did. Last year. The strangest things sometimes happen on basketball courts.

To clarify my motives,

#1 AP

#2 Throw in Violation

#3 AP


I had a 29 year Vet tell a coach that #3 was a violation and ball goes to B. AP not relevant!

I placed it out here to get confirmation that I know what I am talking about and not to believe everything others may profess:p

A lesson in life I learned sometimes those with the biggest mouth have the least amount of accurate information:)

I still read through the rule and case books cover-to-cover at least once per year. It gets more and more boring each time, but I do it anyway.

This is why.

Correct on all three

for #3, just to confirm what I'm almost certain on:

If you have a delayed violation on the FT and the ball lodges, it is treated just like any other miss and another FT is awarded.

Correct IMO. I don't believe there's a case play on this but that might be a good suggestion as one for the NFHS to adopt.

Logically, the reason you go AP on a lodged try (FG or FT) is because both teams are afforded no opportunity to rebound the miss. In a delayed violation scenario, the ball becomes dead when the FT ends (ball lodges) and you proceed by penalizing the violation (substitute FT).

How about if A1 goes in wrong direction, "shoots", and it lodges? It is neither a shot, throw-in, nor a FT.:eek:

Give it back to A. A was still in TC and the ball became dead without a violation or foul, or end of period being involved (and whatever else is covered in the rule on this)

And A gets a fresh ten seconds! Talk about a lucky break.

Isn't that an AP also? Rules don't use the word shot/shoots. (6-4-3 d)

Find the rule on when the AP is used when "neither TC, not a violation, nor end of period in involved". Are all those applicable?

Wow--that is so not intuitive!

So has anyone--in the history of the game--seen #2 from the OP?

It is definitely counterintuitive that an attempt at the wrong basket is not a try for goal, but that's the rule. Came from behind the arc? Two points. A1 ended a dribble, "shot," and the ball hit the opponent's backboard? Illegal dribble violation.

A thorough knowledge of the definitions in Rule 4 and their associated case plays are important in situations like this.

As for #2, I haven't seen it, but I always thought I'd see it before I ever saw #3. Wrong! I can envision an alley-oop throw-in from the sideline getting lodged. It'll happen someday and I'll be ready with the call. Bonus points for anyone who can find a video of this happening.

I never like disagreeing with Bob, but I'm going to here. It doesn't matter if the ball lodges as a result of a try or pass. 6-4-3d.

"Alternating possession throw-ins shall be from the out-of-bounds spot nearest to where the ball was located. An alternating possession throw-in shall result when: (d) A live ball lodges between the backboard and ring. . . unless a free throw or throw-in follows."

Wedgie at opponent's basket results in an AP throw-in.

I'll go with that.

Excellent point. It says, "live ball," not "try."

I stand corrected as well.

I agree.

Several years ago I had a team in its backcourt trying to break a press. A1 attempted a crosscourt pass to A2 along the end line. Of course, the nearly horizontal pass wedged in the space between the ring and backboard. I called an AP throw-in.

an additional one
Last Shot of a Technical Foul

Well there went a great trivia question . . .

I got one...

A1 is dribbling in his backcourt towards Team B's basket. A1 stops dribbling and "shoots" at B's basket, but the ball gets lodged between the rim and backboard. AP or double dribble?

I'm going to guess "double dribble"

I thought so!

As for the other .. chicken before the egg kinda crap .. I am going with AP not double dribble

Not double dribble as A1 has not touched the ball after it hit the rim/backboard.

Why would A1 have to touch the ball again for a double dribble? He dribbled, stopped, and threw it off his opponent's backboard. Throwing it off your opponent's backboard is the same as pushing it to the floor. So do you not call "normal" double dribbles until the dribbler touches the ball after dribbling a second time?

Nothing. Offended team retains throw-in. A/P not used. Rule 6 section 4 art 3d.

Correct. See NF 2016-17 case 9.5 sit A. Presuming it did not change for this year.

I don't recall seeing or hearing about the part where A1 needs to be the first to touch the ball after it hits the backboard or official. Which makes my question moot.

Thanks

The double dribble actually occurs at the time of the release. It is just that you can't know whether it is a dribble or a pass until it is again touched by either A1 or another player.

(Assuming this does become a double dribble) -- So is the throw-in spot where A1 initially released the ball, or where A1 subsequently touches the ball?

Or could it be where the "dribble" itself occurred (backboard).

I believe it would be where the ball was released. But, for all practical purposes, it will not matter much. The spot will be in the backcourt for the team getting the ball. Some spots might be a little more advantageous than others but unless we're talking about it being in the corner vs the lane line vs the 28' mark, I'm not going to worry about that one.

The ball would be inbounded from the spot closest to where the violation occurred. In this case, the violation occurred when the player touched the ball.

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I'll save myself the headache if this ever happens in a game and go with the AP. I'm sure with the exception of a few people on this board no one else will bat an eyelash.

As a side note meant only as a comment - Throw-in violations can occur a long way from the inbounder and the resulting throw-in takes place at the original throw-in spot.

Also case 4.15.4 sit c

The two clauses of your sentence are contradictory.

After a violation, the ball is put back in play with a throw-in at a spot closest to where the violation occurred. So if the violation occurs a long way from the inbounder, why would the resulting throw-in take place at the original throw-in spot?

A ball thrown directly OOB without touching any player on the court.

Consider an inbounder throwing the ball a great distance that enters the hoop. That is a violation and the ensuing throw-in will be at the original throw-in spot.

Yes, this too. It is really splitting hairs because it is technically a throw-in violation and not necessarily an out of bounds violation. The act/action just takes place far away.

The violation does not occur where the ball goes OOB, as the violation is not for throwing it OOB. It is for not throwing it onto the court--which occurred at the spot of the throw.

What is the violation for and what is the definition of a dribble? You might have a different answer if you go with those.

To fans and players and coaches, the violation occurred where the ball went OOB. That is what everybody sees with their eyes. It is not a violation until the ball goes OOB. And then we bring it back to where the throw-in originated.

That is a violation. But WHAT is the violation? Where does the violation occur?

But it's not an OOB violation. WHAT is the actual violation?

We all know how much the fans know about the rules. :rolleyes: