New Referee Basketball
 

Hello Everyone,

I'm in Queens NY and I was wondering the process of becoming a basketball referee and also I would like to know how you guys made time to ref games.

I contacted my local union and they stated they didn't have classes available to help train me ( they were filled to capacity).

1. I've been reading a downloaded copy of NFHS basketball rules. Do you think this is enough to help me pass the exam ?

2. Is the IAABO test the same as NFHS or is it different rules ?

3. Has anyone ever passed the test without taking the class ?

4. Do you recommend any other reading material or videos I can view to help me out ?

5. Does anyone have a IAABO book available for purchase or can i buy one from somewhere ?

I'm a very fast learner with a flexible schedule.

please let me know

I am not sure what you mean by union. IAABO is made up of many Boards. I am sure there is a Board for Queens, NY. You can either go to IAABO.org or call IAABO National Headquarters at 717-713-8129. I would advise calling Donnie Epply at Headquarters and do not hesitate to use my name. I do know that there are Boards in Brooklyn (Bd. #37), Bronx-Manhattan (Bd. #42), and Queesns (Bd. #119).

As far as Boards in the U.S. are concerned the rules taught are NFHS. The exams are IAABO produced exams but the exams are still NFHS Rules. IABBO has written its own Mechanics Manual but it is very close to the NFHS Mechanics Manual with a few exceptions.

MTD, Sr.

I'm going to focus on your "making time" question, because it is a very important in the process of determining if you really should get into officiating. You have to have a job where you can get off work or not working the hours when games are being played. Around here that meant I needed to be available for 4:00 and 5:30 JV games.

When I started officiating I was still active duty military but had a lot of freedom at work because I worked IT. I did have at least one game where I got there exactly at game time because I could not leave work due to mission requirements.

There's also the money that's involved in starting up. That's what turns off a lot of young guys who don't have a lot of disposable income.

I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just alerting you to be sure to take those things into consideration.

I was able to do it even though I had a full-time military job, and I had 9 and 2 1/2 year-old boys, so I had to schedule my closed out dates around my custody schedule, which was 50/50.

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Agree with BNR (as he was formerly known....not sure why that changed). First of all, I hope you're not too late for this year, but you're probably a little late to the party for the 17-18 season at least at the scholastic level (particularly high school). But there is almost always a need for recreational and weekend junior ball officials, and though the pay isn't fantastic, it can be a great way to get experience.

If you can break into school ball this winter, time flexibility to deal with traffic and get to game sites in the 4pm-ish timeframe will help you move up faster. Not to say you can't move up otherwise, but you'll have fewer game opportunities which might translate to slower development and advancement. Of course there's no substitute for raw talent; if you end up possessing it and you work for an assignor who values ability over seniority (all should, but sadly many don't), then advancing might happen faster.

BNR mentioned the upfront investment (equipment, fees, association dues, etc.). Take it from all of us....it's worth it. Even with a stable rec/youth schedule, you'll get your investment back at least four- or five-fold. School games = even more. Plus I hear parts of the NYC area grant some of the highest game fees in America, so you have that going for you.

Thanks for your interest and good luck!


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That varies heavily by area....we're still wide open in Oregon and will take rookies well into November.

I'll heavily suggest not officiating unless it is and will be your sole source of income. The negatives outweigh the positives unless....you are making tons of money. I presume that everyone else will disagree with me.

Again, I suggest forgetting all about it. Consider doing something that is simply.....better.

Officiating as a sole source of income is usually relegated to those who work in the NBA or a full-time D1 schedule.

A vast majority of people do it for supplementary income. I sincerely do not understand the logic of your post.

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This is possibly the worst advice for a new official that I've ever seen in print. :confused:

Good Advice ???
 

Since officiating is not my sole source of income, I guess that I'll give it up. Thirty-seven years of my life down the drain. What a total waste of my time.

Sarcasm?

I'm in sales and that usually helps me make my own schedule.

Depends on the kind of learner you are. I would suggest that you pick up the Simplified and Illustrated Rulebook and probably the Rules By Topic Book as well that put many rules and case plays into context. This is really helpful to guys that never have read a rulebook or understand its structure. Hard to read alone unless it is put out for you to understand.

I have no idea, not in a place that takes either.

We did not have classes when I started. But our test was an open book test and you could look up the rules in the rulebook and casebook.

I gave two, but NASO/Referee Magazine has many things that you can buy. I would suggest you invest in yourself and probably pick up many things that might help. the IAABO videos are great. Some of the books are great. It is just a matter of how much money you want to invest. But think of it as, "How many games it will take to pay for my investment."

Peace

Uhm, what?

Thank you for your response. Would you mind going me a small sample of how much extra money might be able to take home monthly during the season.

I just told management that I'm thinking about being a ref and they said they are more than willing to help. My job offers unlimited overtime but a change in atomosphere wouldn't be a bad thing.

Thanks today I ordered two books and I will ordered some videos later on tonight.

Does anyone know where I can get the IAABO book? I'm more than willing to pay.

Not a waste but....

Imagine what you could have accomplished with those 37 years doing something.... better.

Here Comes Beetle Bomb ...
 

You're right. I could have spent the time at the track. Baby needs a new pair of shoes.

I have purchased more than a few pairs of shoes for Baby with my officiating income over the years.

Bucky...what gives? Any chance of your posts being viewed as misplaced sarcasm are rapidly fading.


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Possibly. Maybe I didn't have my meter on that day.

I've been officiating football for 11 years, basketball for 9 years, and baseball for 8 years.

Just looked at my income/expenses spreadsheet, and in that time I've got a net income of approximately $28000, which basically amounts to $2500/year AFTER expenses, mileage, income taxes (yes, I report my income to the IRS) and all that.

Could I have done something more valuable with my time? Perhaps. But how many other people have a avocation or hobby that actually gives them a positive cash flow?

That's the way I look at it -- a hobby that pays me money, as opposed to a hobby where I have to spend money

I always tell others that I am getting paid to exercise, which is a great outcome that far outweighs the fiscal benefits.

In addition, my involvement in officiating was a major influence on 2 of my sons who were inspired to make it their professional careers.

Not sure I would consider time at the track better but whateves....

I did not mean to stir the pot. Recall that I indicated most would disagree with me. It was not sarcasm but anyone thinking of officiating, at least basketball, should strongly consider what is involved.

I would suggest digging deeper into the ledger. Most, around me anyway, do not report officiating income for tax purposes. Indeed positive cash flow but...at what actual expense. There is a looooong list of hidden costs but, to name a few:

Physical toll - knees, hips, etc.
Mental stress from countless sources from the minor (keeping an availability
calendar up to date) to the major (ejecting several players for a fight)
Actual money made per hour (remember to include packing a bag, laundry,
driving to/from game, meeting attendance, shopping for gear, camps,
emailing a partner, and all the other tiny bits of time involved)
Impact on life - work, sig oth, spouse, kids, etc..

Again, not trying to be a Debbie Downer but one has to consider everything and very few actually do that before jumping into it.

Ahh, professional careers = for the money. Great!

First of all... the physical toll?? From officiating??? Come on. You need to check your diet and exercise regimen if officiating takes a physical toll on you.

Second, do you count the hours that you spend doing laundry for your primary job, travel to that job, shopping for new clothes for that job, money spent on degree for that job, etc. when you figure your own salary? I really hope you're kidding here today because you got me hook, line, and sinker.

To the new guy- try it out for a couple of years. You may love it. You may hate it. But don't let some jamoke on a message board be the reason you make your decision. If you have thick skin, I imagine you'll enjoy it.

If anyone is thinking of officiating for the money then they need to find another part time job. I officiate because I love the game, and I enjoy officiating. It's a hobby I get paid for. Are there downsides? Yeah, but that's true of anything.

What other officials do in this regard is not my concern.

Which could also be a concern with any number of other activities (running, skiing, auto racing, etc.) Alternatively, what about the physical toll from NOT exercising and sitting on the couch all day watching TV or playing videogames?

I keep a calendar up to date for my regular life anyway. And officiating is actually a stress RELIEVER for me. I actually really enjoy the high-stress moments when everyone else in the area is going crazy and I'm the calm center of the universe.

Yep, it takes time... so do any number of other hobbies and activities that would actually COST me money to participate in.

A valid concern, and one that requires constant communication with the family. Since my son was born, I've cut back my officiating by about 70% so I can spend time with him (and also to give my wife time to pursue her hobby, which she also makes money doing). But, again, any activity or hobby can have detrimental impacts on your life if you let it.

It does, of course, help that my job is flexible enough to allow me to leave early on the occasions that I need to do so.

This.

Some attrition is inevitable. But we need (x) new officials every year in order to get the (x-y) returning officials we need to sustain the profession. Be an x-man and then let the chips fall where they may.



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With that perspective, Bucky, I'm surprised you referee.

Because Of Officiating, I'm A Thousandaire ...
 

Amen. I wouldn't do it for free, but I'll keep doing it because it generates a positive cash flow, and I love doing it.

Oh, I almost forgot, I do it for the kids. Yeah, that's right, it's for the kids. Always for the kids.

Look For The Black Helicopters ...
 

Worse than taking a knee?

bucky: You do realize that the Internal Revenue Service monitors this Forum all the time.

He’s never posted anything that makes me think he is an official.

I don’t referee for the kids. And many times when I hear that phrase I can tell the person using it is being disingenuous (not you, Billy). I referee because I love to referee.

Most schools in South Carolina are going to ArbiterPay this year (finally), which is upsetting to officials who had previously just left any income they didn’t receive a 1099 for unreported (since it was common not to make $600/year from an entity when the schools/districts were paying us on their own). Because ArbiterPay will send 1099s based on the total amount paid, now those officials will have no choice but to (gasp) actually report their earnings.

Slowly doing less. Tough to work certain levels/genders without falling asleep. Also, it has become so cliche. People say/do the dumbest things. It has become extremely predictable.

The Blue Text ...
 

I'm pleased that my message was understood without resorting to the "sarcastic blue text". As much as I enjoy officiating, and doing a good job for the coaches, players, fans, and my partners, I would never do it for free (except for Special Olympics Unified Sports, and that I really do officiate for the kids).

I report mine. It was amazing to watch/hear so many non-reporting officials complain about Arbiter doing that.

Death And Taxes ...
 

Which I've been doing right along. Maybe I'm a chump, but I'm a patriotic chump.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.l...=0&w=547&h=162

I think you misunderstood. It's a better who spends time at the track.

You make much more officiating than you make working at McDonald's for example. I paid for my first car mostly with money from officiating. I tell guys in college that they can do better working games than they can most other jobs with their time they spend on other things.

Peace

You're right, most part-time jobs are not going to pay you around $70 for what amounts to maybe 3.5 hours of work (travel time, early arrival, and game time). Of course, that doesn't take into account the time we spend attending meetings, reading, paying dues, along with the money and time used to purchase uniform stuff.

To your point, my best friend's father put him through college using the money he made officiating. Of course, his father officiated four sports, and worked almost every night, to do so. But yes, there is money to be made doing what we do.

But I believe my point is still valid, as it is certainly possible to find a part-time job that is comparable in pay when you take into account all those extras I pointed out in the first paragraph. And that doesn't include the stress and crap we put up with compared to the guy working the drive thru at McDonald's, either (that's not to say they don't have any crap to deal with, but I believe on average we put up with more).

To you and me, the money we make is worth what we put into it. But I'm not going to tell somebody that simply wants to make a little extra money that officiating is a great way to do that. I'd rather be 100% honest about what it takes to truly succeed at what we do, and let that person decide if it's worth a try.

I'm sorry if what I'm saying dissuades anybody from officiating, as many places need more officials (especially good ones that are dedicated).

I started officiated b/c I needed a part-time job to supplement my income 16 years ago. Every year by March I have all my credit card and Christmas bills paid done to zero.

Actually funny and made for a good start to my day.

Unfortunately, not everybody is willing to put in the time, energy, and money into a part time job like you have. We see many new officials around here give it up after just one year.

Hell, it's true of most jobs. No one job is right for everybody.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone here. If anything, I feel that I'm giving props to people such as yourself that have dedicated so much of their time, energy, and money into officiating. Because there are plenty of people that would rather find something easy and less stressful to make extra money. And I'm not bashing them, either.

I stand by my statement that you shouldn't officiate simply for the money.

Bryan did a better job of saying essentially what I meant. A new official doesn't start making $70/game. I also do not believe one, initially, could make more money working at McDonald's, let alone "much more". Clearly McDonald's would provide more hours and thus more money. McDonald's, or similar job, provides room for advancement, resume building, S.S., education reimbursement, food(lol), and other perks that are more worthwhile than officiating. Not say officiating completely does not provide some of those things just not a par with a job. This is the way I might look at it: A teenager asks, "What should I do for income? Get a job, like McDonald's, or officiate basketball?" I know what my answer would be.

This is all presuming that the OP was young. If older and simply needs a "hobby" then my answer might be different.

I might make $70, but then I spend $25 of it on dinner afterwards. I don't know of many officials who run right home after every game and don't spend any of the money they make.

I used to be a Dominos Pizza delivery guy in college. I would make in tips for a full night from 4-close (2 in the morning), about 25 dollars in tips on a weeknight. I might make around 50 dollars working on a weekend where I would close later. I would not make as much money after taxes as I do working a single middle school game and it is guaranteed, not based on how many tips I might get. And you can write off your expenses like food or gas and you might not have spent a couple of hours based on where the game is located.

So I can work a couple of hours and make well over $50 or work all night and maybe make that. And McDonald's and many other jobs are not going to allow you to work a 40 hour week. Where they take out taxes and other fees because they are required to do that by law and you cannot write off any expenses the same way you can while being self-employed.

I would never say this was the best way to make money overall, but when your time is money and you have hours in the day to do other things (like another job), it is pretty lucrative as a second job. I know people that use the money to go on family trips or to pay kids through college.

Just think about it, if during a 3 month period I make an average of $50 a day for 90 days (including multiple game days), I have made $4500. And that is only at the heart of the basketball season. I can work many more games during the off-season and more games in a day between.

And if you file taxes right, you pay almost nothing because you can claim reasonable expenses for those fees you get.

Peace

FYI, I don't want to be lumped into the "don't bother" crowd. Maybe more like the "it's not for everybody, so perhaps look elsewhere if all you want are a few extra bucks" crowd.

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Good info and makes sense however new officials, mostly, are not officiating enough to average $50/day as you indicated for yourself.

Now you know at least one, me.

(save that dinner receipt, as an expense, for tax purposes. lol)

So now you are going directly opposite of your initial "only do it if you are going make it your primary income" post.

WOW! How many Big Macs is that? :eek:

Zero.


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With grammar like that, I do not want to risk trying to understand.

Maybe in your area, but around here you can work every day if you really want to. For one there are mostly lower level games which need a body more than anything and weekend tournaments that would also be youth games and can easily get a lot of that work if they wish. I belong to 3 associations and every day I get emails to cover games at some lower level or Junior High/Middle School. And in many cases, those lower level games are multiple games and pay nearly if not $50 a game. And if you get paid $45 dollars a game and you will work 3 or 4 games in a night at the middle school level, you made over $100 easily that day. Guys like me do not do that anymore because I make enough working varsity and college games and this is not my main source of income. So I have other things I would like to do but could work every day during the basketball season if I choose to. I just choose not to. But everyone gets the same emails I do regardless of experience level.

Peace

I find no fault with Raymond's observation that you are back-tracking 180 on your original position.

Invoking the grammar police is the last bastion of a flawed and confusing message.

Where's the IGNORE feature on this board?

This is the first time in 15 years I have ever wanted to block a blockhead user.

You understand exactly what I wrote, extra word or not. Your first response in this thread was for one to only get into officiating if it will be one's primary source of income. Then you turn around and give a litany of reasons why money can't be made in this vocation.

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Well, this thread has given me a moment of pause to reflect on exactly "why" I choose to ref basketball. When I first started out the local YMCA, my purpose for reffing their youth games was two-fold: 1) it got me extra income and 2) it afforded me a free membership. Then after two years with them, the sports director sponsored me to take my first NF exam and paid for my certification process. Ymca managment said they wanted to "improve" the level of YMCA basketball officials and this would in turn improve the status of their youth leagues--which actually worked out quite well. It was such a pleasure to work those Ymca games in my early years of officiating---the fans (who were mostly parents--and yes Billy Mac-- comprised of numerous very 'hot moms'), the coaches (dads some of whom I had played against competitively), and players (some of whom remember me even today from 15 years ago! And I must say it is always quite amusing when I see a player whom I reffed in 6th grade who now has kids, tattoos, etc.) were nice, appreciative, and would always thank me after the games regardless of the outcome of the contest. Often bringing orange slices, sharing snacks, and inviting me out to lunch. As I began to get middle school and high school assignments I found that the money was significantly better; however, the rigors (dealing with irascible coaches, acerbic fans, and travel time) were new to me and initially disheartening. Then as I began to be challenged more and acquire more rules knowledge, game management skills, and all-- I discovered a deeper reason to officiate---and it is this ultimate reason that sustains my interest and desire today. I realized that I truly enjoy refereeing games because by being a referee I get to possess and dispense a highly specialized knowledge (i.e., the formal NF rules and their interpretation) in an instantaneous and impartial manner that has a very real public impact and consequences. Could I get this same 'high' from my regular job? Yes, but this is different! Yeah man, that's a thrill to me! Officiating basketball fulfills one of the Maslow hierarchy dimensions for me. : > )

Longer Than OJ's Stretch ...
 

justacoach: Remember the time sixteen years ago when you blocked me. Please unblock me. Sixteen years is a long time. It's about time that you did the compassionate thing and finally unblock me, don't you think?

And It's For The Kids, Don't Forget That, It's For The Kids ...
 

Kansas Ref: Nice post. Thanks for sharing.

Still waiting on your apology for calling me a schmendrick way back when I was just a mere coach. I have graduated to an esteemed (retired) forum member but I cannot muster any sympathy for your transgression.

Maybe in another 16 years....

Thank you for sharing.

Thank you everyone for commenting and giving you advice about being an official.

Does anyone know where i can get a IAABO book and or second hand trainmen videos ?

I just had a child and money is currently low at the moment.

Also I make pretty good money in my profession I would like to ref for fun and spending money. I also made a promise to myself to give back to children and believe this is the best way. Basketball got me into college and kept me out of trouble. Basketball

Chief_Khan...

Watch out this advocation is addicting. I needed a 2nd job over 7 years ago and was addicted doing a church game in preparation for my first paid game a few days later.

Lost 50 lbs. The 1500 miles a year running, walking, sprinting, etc has put me at much better health than most my age. I have made over $100k in those years. Sure you have to buy some gear and pay some assocation fees. But we NEED you. No matter what you want from officating we need new blood. The average HS referee across all sports is 55. And they cant do it forever. Every level has it challenges. Your family is going to miss you. So limit yourself and enjoy them because you cant get back that time. For many it is a major stress reliever. Mentally fun to be in charge and manage the game. So much to learn it makes life fun and provides variety which is a major need for us. Will there be people who dont like your calls? Always. Just laugh all the way to the bank. If you focus on how much fun the other 99% of the time is you will love it.

Basketball is the hardest sport. So expect a large learning curve. And more sports its like taking candy from a baby. IF you study if you ask for feedback you will improve quickly. Your desire to get books and get videos puts you ahead of 99% of other newbies. Your willingness to come here and talk and keep asking questions puts you way out in front. Keep coming back. These guys will make you golden quickly.

It is the best part time job in America. I make $15-20k a year and its hard working a second job for 10 hours a week. Because I am approaching my 50s but its great money and most of the time its fun working with friends and watching kids grow up and you getting paid to keep in shape.

Good luck in NY!

You people bashing me are not reading/undertanding. Additionally, I qualified my initial responses more than enough to make name-calling unnecessary.

Indeed, I indicated primary source of income but in the same post I also indicated "tons of money". You failed to read or include that in your assessment. You also suggest I am contradicting myself because you are focused on veterans and the money they could make. my focus was on first-time officials. Jrut indicated working every day if desired in his area. I would believe that for a veteran official but not a first timer. My entire focus has been on someone officiating for the first time, not all of the well-connected refs who are automatically qualified to work at any level and thus be offered games daily. I can't speak for Jrut and his area, but in my area, there are not games every day offered to first-time officials for $50/game year round. If that is the case, then yea, go ref and make tons of money.

Not sure why some of you have turned the topic on me. Stay focused and provide the OP your opinions.:rolleyes:

Some Youtube vids out there. Lots and lots of other associations, all across the country, that have online vids/cases/exams/quizzes/powerpoints/etc.

Is Shoreline still running?

I think I made it very clear that anyone could work every day if they make themselves available. You do not have to necessarily be a veteran if you choose to make yourself available. Once again, just answer emails or do self-assign on Arbiter and you can work a lot. Veterans often know better to work Men's leagues or even youth travel ball. But those that do, often are the ones that do it for the money and not for the craft. And there are games almost year-round somewhere. And again, I was talking about my area. I have no idea what they might do in specific areas I have not been. And even if you do not work every day, there are weekend tournaments where you can make enough money and often the people that do not know any better are the rookies. ;)

Peace

Who called you a name?

Secondly, you gave directly contradictory advice,. First:. "I'll heavily suggest not officiating unless it is and will be your sole source of income."

Then later you gave a list of reasons why a newcomer can't make any money.

So which is it supposed be?

And again, who called you a name.



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Justacoach did in post(I think) #56 (blockhead)

You might think it is contradictory but I do not. You continuously focus on quoting "..sole source of income." and leaving out "..making tons of money.."

I did not give a list of reasons why a newcomer can't make any money. I gave a list of items a newcomer would face to make very little money. I have indicated repeatedly that if one can make lots of money, and feel that money outweighs all of the negatives, then yes, go ahead and officiate. I personally do not feel that a newcomer can make enough money officiating basketball to outweigh the negatives. Others do. Simple as that. Done posting to you Raymond and this post.

If you think blockhead constitutes a pejorative as opposed to a descriptive comment, you are probably too hyper-sensitive to survive in any officiating environment.

Stop trying to backpedal on your inconsistent comments. We can all read your remarks clearly.

^ Tempting him to have another last word when he already declared it. Nice. I'm curious to see if he takes the bait.


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Several months ago when a similar thing occurred, he stated he was going to block me after one of my replies. I don't remember what it was about, but this isn't the first time this has happened.

Again, that is your personal perspective. You have the right to have that perspective and certainly, can suggest it is not worth it to you, but that is not really your decision to make for others. If a person would rather work a couple of hours and make more money than they would in the same time while working a fast food job or other minimum wage positions, then it might be worth it to them. Especially when they have other things they might want to do. I know for me I do not want to work all night to walk away with less than $50 and in a couple of hours, I can make that without much effort officiating. That is worth it to me for extra money as opposed to the alternative for most. Money is worth it when it is your time. You cannot speak for what others might value and that is my only point in this discussion. All the other stuff is not my concern.

Peace

It's all relative to where you're located as well. If you live in a bigger metro area, you can find basketball games every night, no matter what your level of experience. I know there are people in my area who work every night and it is their main source of income. In other areas I have lived, you couldn't do that because the area is too small to support that much basketball. People who make declarations thinking everything is the same everywhere just shouldn't make those declarations without a caveat because they don't know what things are like everywhere. Bucky seems like a bit of a troll just looking for trouble until someone calls him out on it - then he gets all pouty and runs away.

When In Rome ...
 

Which I didn't fully realize until I joined this Forum. Sometimes you don't know what you don't know.

Texas officials sounding their whistles before walking onto to court to let players know to stop dunking. Who would have guessed it?