Response to player protests
 

With all of the attention on player protests during the national anthem recently, have you ever had to deal with this at a game? What would you do, if anything, if a player (or team) took a knee during the anthem?

This happened in my area last season and the school stopped playing the anthem before games.

I've had officials tell me that if a team took a knee, they would refuse to officiate the game and leave the venue.

So, has this happened in one of your games? What would/did you do in such a situation?

I believe we had this conversation last year.

I would do absolutely nothing in regards to the player. It's none of my (our) business.

If an official left, I would consider him/her unprofessional and probably wouldn't work with that official again.

If an official informed his/her assignor that the he/she doesn't want to work games involving schools that make such gestures, I would respect that.

It's absolutely none of my business, no matter what my personal feelings on the subject might or might not be.

I would do absolutely nothing.

But if I had a partner who refused to officiate the game based on that action, that person be immediately added to my "do not work with under any circumstances" list (which currently only has 2 members).

I had a BV team twice last year that went back into the locker room for the National Anthem. None of my business. I would not consider it professional if an Official refused to work the game. However an Official always would have the option not to work a game for that team in the future.

Ignore it. Unless you all do your anthem lineups differently, they wouldnt be in my eyeline to see anyway and I'm not looking for it.

Billy Mac ...
 

Me, and who else?

This is the memo that all SCHSL officials got last year regarding officials participating in the protests.

If a player does this I can’t imagine I’d get involved, and if another official got involved in any way, including walking out, I would never see him/her again. I live in the most conservative region of a conservative state, so I really can’t imagine this being an issue at most of the schools I go to. But, I’ve been wrong before.

MEMO Wednesday, October 26, 2016

To SCHSL Certified Officials,
I hope that each of you are doing well and enjoying the slight change in temperatures across our beautiful state. Traditionally, officials have been expected to stand for the playing of the National Anthem and address the American flag, also referred to as “Old Glory.” The expectations of the SCHSL and member schools are that SCHSL officials will continue to honor this tradition. However, with the recent social protests that are occurring during the National Anthem throughout our country, we realize there may be officials who may be considering this action during a SCHSL athletic event.
Therefore, if any official plans to make a political or social statement (words or actions) while on an assignment for one of our contests, he/she must contact our office in writing (email) no later than two days before the date of the scheduled contest so I may notify the school of your intent. Once the school has been notified of the planned action(s) to be taken by the official (s), the school will advise our office if they are able to provide adequate security. If the school decides the proposed action(s) by the official(s) risks crew or public safety, the official will be removed from the game as a precaution and we will re-assign the position to another official.
By this action, both First Amendment rights and safety issues are being protected and addressed. If you wish to share feedback on this topic, please do not hesitate to contact the SCHSL office immediately.
“The South Carolina High School League has been in existence for over 100 years…all while displaying a total respect and admiration to this country and the people who make it unique, generous and unbreakable. ALL people make the United States of America a family of many cultures and beliefs. It is the hope of the SCHSL that we continue to support one another while being proud Americans working as One Team. Athletics are meant to bring us together and highlight our strengths, skills and for lack of a better term, our hopes and dreams. We are truly better together,” states SCHSL Commissioner Jerome Singleton.

The first one was a football official who threatened to fight a coach in the parking lot after a 9th grade (and yes, it was the official who issued the threat).

The second one was a baseball umpire who hung me out to dry on a potential third-strike checked swing (he was BU) because is back was turned and he "was talking to the first-base coach about the Lord" (his words). Turned what would've possibly been a 1-2-3 inning into 3 runs scored and a coach ejection.

Here's a couple of random thoughts....

1) Free speech generally protects an individual from government interference with that speech. Where i am the overwhelming majority of schools are public school and are part of the government. While schools can get involved with free speech issues more than other governments, i am contracted by that entity and will not do anything that will expand or detract from my contractual responsibilities or make the situation worse because I am a contractor.

2) Although i might disagree with the tactics... and although what I see as disrespect pains me and disturbs me and .. I wonder how many many of these individuals truly understand what is means to be free or if they understand how privileged they are compared to the rest of the world....

but at the end of the day I know that as someone who has served in the oldest military organization in the country for nearly 39 years, someone who has taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution, an oath that pledges even my life in its defense that in part its been me that has answered the call of this country to ensure that they have the ability to protest in this manner.

Are there problems with the country? Yep... are we perfect? Nope! But we have it better than many across the world. Much of the controversy is generated because we have little respect for each other... if we worked on respect for each other.... if we showed respect for the flag and our respected institutions we may be able to come together to resolve our differences.

I am a defender of of their peaceful right to protest no matter how much it pains me.

Thanks to everybody who replied. Ray's reply was first and pretty much mirrors my own thoughts exactly.

It seems inevitable that with so many officials all over the country at many different levels that somebody somewhere in stripes will take a knee or not come out for the anthem. I am split on how to feel about this. I am glad that all of the attention from these protests are sort of bringing to light the unfair treatment of POC by society as a whole, and in particular by those police departments. If you can't see the issues that they are highlighting, you are either very dense or purposely ignoring the incidents that happen. I think that those that see this as protesting the anthem or flag are missing the mark. I saw a great parallel drawn between this and Rosa Parks indicating that thinking these guys are protesting the flag and anthem is like saying Rosa was protesting public transportation. I think an official making this symbolic gesture would renew the attention that the issue has received over the past week or so and maybe help move our society in a better direction as we acknowledge these issues and try to remedy them.

On the other hand, I think that we are already a group that not many people like or have sympathy for during the game. I think if/when an official does this, he or she is likely to have a very rough game and probably a tough year due to the criticism that they would draw. I wouldn't want to be on that crew. With that being said, I would have a lot of respect for that person if they believe in this issue so much as to put their profession on the line. My hope is that if/when this person does it, they are doing it because they believe in the cause and not to be on the front page of ESPN. I'm fairly certain that the person would probably not be officiating next year, and would probably be taken off of assignments as well.

Those are my thoughts and ideas on how I would handle it.

Kelvin,
Thank you for your service.

I have been in several games where people did not celebrate the Anthem in several different ways. For one many people in certain places do not stand or put their hand over their heart. So if I got upset every time someone did not do something they were supposed to based on the standards of this practice, then I would have done something long time ago. Now I have been involved in games where some kind of "protest" has taken place in both football and basketball.

My father is buried in a Veteran Cemetary and I grew up respecting this flag, but I had a mother that was in the Civil Rights Movement where she was in a lawsuit for discrimination when they segregated a school in Florida. So I want this country to uphold the standards they have set. And protest is supposed to be uncomfortable and supposed to draw attention.

I have a political position on many things. If you are like some here you know that if you see my page, I can be very political. But it is not my place to tell those what to do personally with their politics outside of the game. I am also a person that officiated both a football and basketball game at a school whose mascot was the "Rebel Flag" and as an African-American who is deeply offended by that flag, I said nothing in my role as an official. I did my job and moved on. And that alone is much more offensive than some kneeling during the Anthem.

Peace

I respect protesters' message even if I don't agree with it or I don't agree with the method.

But what I think people get wrong is the scope to which the First Amendment applies. It protects no right to free speech on your employer's dime. It also definitely protects no right to free speech in your capacity as an independent contractor.

Officials that choose to do this have no "rights" to assert if an assigner shows them the door. All this talk I hear about "rights" on social media and television–it's just not true in many cases.

Thank you for your service! Saying thanks isn't nearly enough...

Yes, that is true, but employers are not going to get rid of players they have a "contact" with or have nothing in the CBA to take action with just cause. So the First Amendment only involves the government and action from the government. When Trump opened his mouth, he kind of used his position to take action against the players. The owners and players took action at least in the NFL situation.

Peace

I believe such an event occurred in a CIAA football game last year.

I had one supervisor address this subject last year in a preseason clinic. He stated we should not do this, not based on his beliefs or values, but because he thinks it could create safety issues.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I would be deeply offended if any iteration of the "Southern pride" flag posted next to our nation's colors during the national anthem. But I would still officiate the game, and then request not to be sent back to that school.

With Liberty And Justice For All ...
 

JRutledge: You should be very proud of both of your parents. Very proud. They're both heroes.

During World War II, my Dad, my hero, an Army Staff Sergeant, fought his way from North Africa, across Sicily, and up the Apennine Mountains in Italy, over some of Europe's most difficult terrain under some of the worst weather conditions found anywhere during World War II. He was eventually awarded a medal for his heroism in the Battle of Rome (after which he traded his carbine for a typewriter after the Army discovered that he went to business school and could type).

As kids, every national holiday (they weren't always on Mondays back then) my Dad proudly displayed our family's (all three of his bothers served) American Flag, and he made a point of telling my brother and me why he was displaying the flag on that particular special day. He's no longer with us, so I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure that he didn't risk his life and didn't fight his way across Italy for a piece of red, white, and blue colored cloth, or a poem matched with music from a British song, both that symbolized liberty, freedom, and justice; but rather, for the actual liberty, actual freedom, and actual justice (not just symbols) that we have in this wonderful country.

"With liberty and justice for all". Remember when we all recited that at the beginning of school every day? Did we mean it?

Your best post ever.

I'm guessing some players knelt last night.

I wouldn't know. We were at the 20 yard line, facing the flag behind the end zone. All the players were behind us.

Even I agree.

Agreed, that was an awesome post.

Happy early Yom Kippur, MP. I'm basing that off of your signature.

Kosher ???
 

Ask Mark Padgett if is new heart valve is kosher?

An appropriate response, and one I would take as well.

Just for the record, I worked a game on Friday where the schools and many of the fans never stood. The players and coaches stood, but not the fans. And like maybe nearly half of the fans never stood.

Again, I wish we would get rid of this practice or change the song. But that is another conversation for another day.

Peace

An official I know walked out on a game last week after a player knelt. Suspended 1.5 years by state association for violating game contract.

Good.

Peace

Yes... good.

How many of you are going to say “Good” when Jerry Jones suspends a player who kneels during the anthem?


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I don't see why those thoughts would be in conflict. An official failing to uphold professional standards isn't the same as an employer imposing them.

First of all different relationship. Secondly, I would do what was suggested by a SportsCenter Anchor and boycott just about everything that man had something to do with. He has no problem taking a position to have others that have actually been accused of violating the law and signing them, but he is worried about the flag and something that is not mandated by the league? Funny. Thanks for the laugh.

Officials are not in a role where we do anything but call the game. If you are offended by everything that goes on around that game, then stay home.

Peace

You expect me to side with that man? Lol

Besides, it's our job.

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I'm not. I support them doing what they feel is right.

Officials are different. We aren't there to take sides or to show how we feel personally. People always think we're not impartial to begin with.

Our job mandates we be neutral and focused on the job at hand.

You are trying to equate apples and oranges.

The players' pregame actions have nothing to do with the official's pregame duties. If one does not want to officiate a game in which students may make such demonstration then the official should not accept the assignment.

MTD, Sr.

Kelvin Green...............great post man!

For the record, I have been involved in many conservative political displays before games. Just the fact that we do a national anthem before games are political in nature. I mostly like it when we just play the darn game and move on. I have never considered walking out when something is said politically that I might not agree with or support normally. That is not the place or the time to show where I stand politically. I have worked a game at a school that had the Confederate Flag as part of their mascot and this was in the 90s. I did not walk out or not officiate the game when that stupid flag was displayed or offensive to me. I worked the game and moved on.

Peace

Didn’t you already tell us this once before in this thread?


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Probably and will do it again for people that think everything is about their political views. ;)

Peace

Response to player protests
 

I'll say it over and over again, too. I support any player who wishes to express him or herself in this way at any level.

As an official it's none of my damned business.

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That’s his right as an employer to do that. Whether or not I agree with it is a different discussion. In their capacity as NFL players, the First Amendment doesn’t protect them from their employer’s backlash.

Just like how the First Amendment doesn’t shield us in our officiating role if we do something like this.

Ultimately, your comparison is a false equivalency.

If that player leaves the stadium b/c his teammates stood for the national anthem, then you might have a point that makes sense.

One of my associations not only works games at Lee-Davis High School, whose nickname is the Confederates, we hold our monthly meetings there also.

And we still show up and so what is required.

I think I shared this story here last year when this topic came up.

Many years ago it was pointed out to me to take a quick look around the stands at a NCAA D-III football game hosted by a private Mennonite college. There were a few families who did not stand during the anthem. I asked about it and the person said that as Mennonites, they felt such a display was akin to idol worship and they refused to participate. In fact, the administration at the school in question debated dropping the anthem from all of their activities for the same reason.

These people weren't sitting around talking and laughing like some of the student sections I've seen. They were respectfully sitting with their heads bowed (possibly praying). I told the person that I respect their beliefs and that is part of what the flag and the anthem represent...the ability to not participate in something we disagreed with.

Fast forward a decade or two and we have this issue as a national conversation. Even though I might disagree with their reasons, I would be an absolute hypocrite if I did not ignore those that respectfully kneel in the same way I effectively ignore the Mennonites in the stands praying for our souls.

Here are a couple stories from the last week out of Indiana...

In this one, Volleyball ref threaten's players with DQ if they protest.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...sts/775480001/



In this story, a former Air Force Vet, now HS Official, broke contract by walking out at the start of contest over players kneeling and has had his license suspended.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ing/780708001/

Here’s another one:

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...lowTwt_NYBrand


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I read about this yesterday on another website. All I can say that fathers are supposed to set good examples for their children and this father did not set a good example for his son.

MTD, Sr.

From IAABO International ...
 

STUDENT-ATHLETE/COACH NATIONAL ANTHEM POSTURES.

Media reports from various areas have recounted several instances where high school game officials have reacted
publicly to student-athletes and/or coaches kneeling in silent protest during the playing of the national anthem
before a game. This fall, it was reported that two officials, at a pre-match meeting with coaches threatened to
disqualify any players who did not demonstrate respect for the American flag or the national anthem. In another
instance, an official observed a player kneeling during the anthem and proceeded to advise a coach that he was
leaving the gym. In yet another game, after witnessing players kneeling during the anthem two officials left the
field, leaving the 3 remaining officials, — allegedly not without verbalizing his objection to kneeling players and
their coach. After the game, the media reported that the coach claimed that, before the game the Referee requested
— on behalf of the officiating crew — that any player who might kneel remain in the locker room “to avoid any
problems.” After the game, one of the departed officials eagerly gave media interviews where he was reported to
have said the chain officials who were called off the sidelines to replace the two officials “…weren’t officially
trained,’” and added that if the kneeling players “weren’t happy in the U.S., they should leave the country.”

These embarrassing and untoward incidents should provide a cautionary tale for IAABO officials everywhere:
IAABO Boards are requested to briefly review with all members a number of fundamental and well-established
principles of officiating; so as to avoid situations where officials denigrate themselves, their fellow officials, and
the game by abdicating their contractual and ethical responsibility to call the game to the best of their ability.

a. Refusing to work a contracted game as a protest after arriving at a game site is not only a breach of a
contract to officiate. Media statements identifying “offending” players and teams are even more
unprofessional. Taken together, these actions are indicative of a lack of understanding of the basic
obligations of a game official.

b. An official needs to remember at all times the reason why he or she is in the gym or the field house in
uniform.

c. There is no provision in the NFHS or any other basketball rules code of which we are aware regarding penalties for kneeling during pre-game ceremonies.

d. Officials may pontificate about honoring the flag and respect — however, failing to honor a contract,
leaving two teams, family and friends, coaches and staff, and one’s officiating partners to ponder the fate
of the game while the official calls attention to himself or herself — is evidence of dishonor and disrespect
of everyone else in the venue.

e. Self-righteous and gratuitous comments regarding pre-game ceremonies, threats to penalize athletes for
actions which do not violate the rules of the game, and denigration of athletes and team personnel in media
statements also serve to destroy the mantle of impartiality on which all officials’ credibility depends.

No guidelines regarding officials who wish to join the protests by kneeling themselves? Interesting.

They do not need to address something that is not against the rules or likely has not even happen. You are an official that is contracted to do a game. If an official kneels (stay in the locker room or does not put their hand over their heart) they still can and likely will adhere to their contract. No part of our contract requires us to do anything specific during any ceremony before the game that has literally nothing to do with the game. And at least in one case, it would be up to the conference to take action as they are the ones that technically hire the officials and we are independent contractors.

Peace

Sympathetic Official ???
 

I guess that our local IAABO board would frown upon any protest by an official, and probably the State board as well. For curiosity's sake, I wonder what IAABO International's stand would be on this possibility.

There have to be some officials out there who are sympathetic to the cause.

There are many referees out there who are sympathetic to the cause. It doesn't mean they will do any gestures in their capacity as an official. Or they may do a gesture that nobody even notices.

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Al Goldberger (noted legal expert with regard to sports officiating) and IAABO's Legal Counsel, in a letter, dated Friday, November 03, 2017, to all IAABO Members and Boards, stated that :

"Media reports from various areas have recounted several instances where high school game officials have reacted publicly to student-athletes and/or coaches kneeling in silent protest during the playing of the national anthem before a game. This fall, it was reported that two officials, at a pre-match meeting with coaches threatened to disqualify any players who did not demonstrate respect for the American flag or the national anthem. In another instance, an official observed a player kneeling during the anthem and proceeded to advise a coach that he was leaving the gym. In yet another game, after witnessing players kneeling during the anthem two officials left the field, leaving the 3 remaining officials, — allegedly not without verbalizing his objection to kneeling players and their coach. After the game, the media reported that the coach claimed that, before the game the Referee requested — on behalf of the officiating crew — that any player who might kneel remain in the locker room “to avoid any problems.” After the game, one of the departed officials eagerly gave media interviews where he was reported to have said the chain officials who were called off the sidelines to replace the two officials “…weren’t officially trained,’” and added that if the kneeling players “weren’t happy in the U.S., they should leave the country.” These embarrassing and untoward incidents should provide a cautionary tale for IAABO officials everywhere:

IAABO Boards are requested to briefly review with all members a number of fundamental and well-established principles of officiating; so as to avoid situations where officials denigrate themselves, their fellow officials, and the game by abdicating their contractual and ethical responsibility to call the game to the best of their ability.

a. Refusing to work a contracted game as a protest after arriving at a game site is not only a breach of a contract to officiate. Media statements identifying “offending” players and teams are even more unprofessional. Taken together, these actions are indicative of a lack of understanding of the basic obligations of a game official.

b. An official needs to remember at all times the reason why he or she is in the gym or the field house in uniform.

c. There is no provision in the NFHS or any other basketball rules code of which we are aware regarding penalties for kneeling during pre-game ceremonies.

d. Officials may pontificate about honoring the flag and respect — however, failing to honor a contract, leaving two teams, family and friends, coaches and staff, and one’s officiating partners to ponder the fate of the game while the official calls attention to himself or herself — is evidence of dishonor and disrespect of everyone else in the venue.

e. Self-righteous and gratuitous comments regarding pre-game ceremonies, threats to penalize athletes for actions which do not violate the rules of the game, and denigration of athletes and team personnel in media statements also serve to destroy the mantle of impartiality on which all officials’ credibility depends."

I should further add that as an OhioHSAA and MichiganHSAA registered official, both organizations have given the same instructions to its officials along the same lines that IAABO has given its Members and Boards.

I am a little behind in my reading but I do think that NASO has taken the same position.

MTD, Sr.