Practicing Two-Hand Reporting
 

So I had a 5th/6th grade tournament yesterday, what a perfect time to start two-hand reporting! Practiced a little bit at home, game starts, called my first foul. . .on number 72!! Oh well. . . . .

Clarification?
 

Is the proper method right hand/first digit, left hand/second digit? Are you to hold both hands up simultaneously or right hand followed immediately by the left?

Yes. Right hand has first digit. You want the scorers table to read the number left to right.

Funny story from coaching days .. my wife wondered for several games when I was coaching about something and she never asked. Mid-way through the season she asked "You keep putting the team in 13 for the defense". I said yes the 1-3-1. She said but you keep holding up 31 on your fingers.

She sat behind the bench in the bleachers:eek:

I show both hands simultaneously. Some people teach showing one after the other, and it can be helpful for starting out to do it that way, but it doesn't really matter.

I'll be blunt, I'm not really sure why people would even have it in their minds to show the number so that it's read backwards from the scorer's perspective. The scorer is the one recording the foul, so common sense would dictate that (s)he would need to be able to read it from left to right.

We have people struggling to do this? If you knew how to report with one hand, I am not sure why adding a second hand is that hard. BTW, been doing this in off season games for years.

Peace

In baseball/softball the count is given with the first number (BALLS) on the left hand and the second number (STRIKES) on the right hand. So I can see the confusion for those who work other sports.

It helps to start the numbers in your hand while going to the table then just bring them up at the last minute. Helps you look better and gives us slow people a chance to prep the numbers..

Who's Struggling?
 

I'm just curious about the mandated mechanic, although at my age, I could care less about getting dinged. Over the years, I have seen more and more micro-managing, down to the littlest detail and mechanic. I could see this becoming another area where refs get dinged for showing right hand, then left, instead of both simultaneously, or vice versa. Maybe it will come down to "when in Rome" or "what your assigned expects."

I never thought about comparing this to calling balls and strikes, Rich, although I do umpire baseball. Now I'll really get confused!

I doubt seriously they are going to mandate any of that other than to stay that the right hand is the first digit and left hand is the second digit.

I cannot imagine that anyone is going to be mandating from the NF how or the specific technique of how you show those numbers. If they do, I will be shocked. The NF for a long time did not tell us how to say the numbers, so I doubt they will do anything else other than say, "Come to a stop..." type suggestions they have had in the past.

Peace

Fair point.

I noticed that the other day, why is that? Is it for the scorer who usually sits behind?

It has nothing to do with the scorer. Strikes are signaled with the right hand and I believe that is why they want you to use your right hand for signalling strikes. It is more for the benefit of the players on the field. It is also not a number like basketball. It is a pitch count.

Peace

Scorer shouldn't care as would be tracking as each pitch happens.
I doubt you will find The Reason for this as it's been that way for a very long time. But I'll bet you can find a lot of theories. E.g., since strikes are signaled with the right hand, it makes sense to show them in that hand.

But since it is two separate things, not a two digit number, there may be no rhyme or reason.

I have noticed many NBA officials who will bring up the right hand before adding the left hand.

I was at an NCAA-M camp recently where an old-school official recommended putting up the right hand first and then the left for clarity.

During the summer I put both hands up at the same time, just hold them up longer.

Hold a sideways "2" with your right hand.

Might have to explain why you're doing that to the table if they ask, but they'll figure it out quickly enough.


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I think it's because of the mnenomic of balL-Left and Right-stRike, and that the words sound similar!

What's odd, however, is the fact that most (not all, but most) indicators show strikes on top, then balls in the middle, and outs on the bottom. You would think they would shows balls, then strikes, in the same order you verbalize counts.

+1

I think we try to make things (mechanics, etc.) harder than they need to be.

Bootlegged . . .
 

. . . out of the NFHS building recently. Could this be what new rule 2-9-1 and its associated mechanics will look like?
NFHS - New 2-9-1 Doc

Doesn't say anything about stopping in the reporting area. If this is what gets printed in the manual, would that imply that walk-and-talk will be acceptable?

Inquiring Minds Want To Know ...
 

Single digit number, i.e., four, right hand?

Thanks Freddy ...
 

Is this from the NFHS? Is there somewhere it can be found online, and copied and pasted? I would like to share it with my local interpreter.

I don't think it matters. Just don't signal 0-4 with two hands.


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Can't find it anywhere on their site, hence "bootlegged." Looks legit. Of course, it could have been sent out by Julian Assange.

Doesn't say anything special about how to report 1 and 1 either, says report free throws in one hand. Means we can now use the "hook 'em horns" like the NBA! No more of the dumb old signal. Boom.

Looks like a few things are not clear. Do we stop and report anymore?

Peace

Two Mints In One ...
 

But then that wouldn't be "two hand reporting".

One And One ...
 

Nice catch. Can we trust the authenticity of this link?

NFHS Colluding With Russians ...
 

It's gotta be the Russians.

Perhaps the "move to the designated reporting area" instruction carries an implicit "and stop."

Maybe, but if the Manual does not include language that explicitly requires stopping in the reporting area, there will be plenty of officials in my area and others nationwide who will begin (or continue to) report while moving absent specific instructions from the powers-that-be. (In SC it's never been hammered statewide to report while still, but plenty of purists will downgrade your peer ratings (not a joke, we have those) if you are not by-the-book with your mechanics.)

I like the walk-and-talk method of reporting, but I wouldn't lose sleep over not getting to use it.

Maybe, but again such a non-issue in the bigger scheme. I just find if funny once again that people even worried about what is or is not required. The NF changes something and leaves out the other important parts of the process. And then we wonder why not everyone follows their procedures to the letter. Well, this is an example of why. You cannot get this part right, why bother following them?

Peace

Things like this become issues when assigners and evaluators mandate them. At my age, I'm not concerned about getting dinged, but people get "demerits" for not doing things by an assigner's "book."

Getting "dinged" for not following proper mechanics is a fact of life in the officiating world. Watched a couple of outstanding officials - excellent judgement, great game management skills, handled some tough situations really well - not advance to the championship games because they wouldn't get to the "box" to report, and used two-hand reporting at the table. They were by far the best officials at the State tournament, but wouldn't follow the proper mechanics. It happens. Not hard to do it right, they just didn't want to.

We have mandates too here, but that does not mean people do not vary from them. And if you have the right "juice" you can overcome them. I know that a few of us could not do the team control foul sequence right and all it hurt was us paying out a beer. Yes, they wanted us to do it right, but it was the running joke. We did all the other things we were basically supposed to do, but it did not hurt my status or others because they were not "perfect." So I doubt anyone in my area is going to care how we do this mechanic in that much detail.

Peace

Using two handed reporting in HS games, prior to this change, struck me as big timing....or attempting to.

I can't imagine quite the same furor in the reverse now.

And if someone uses one hand to report, I probably will hardly say anything to them if there is a camp. The only issue i might suggest is practice it, but otherwise I will not care unless we get a specific mandate. Something tells me we will not get such a mandate in our state. The head clinician who is also a college supervisor did not even like the two handed reporting when it was implemented at that level.

Peace

That's up to your state, obviously.

I'm sure others will expect consistency.

All you or anyone can realistically worry about is the consistency of your very specific area. Unless an organization from one part of the country has control with another part of the country, this is like worrying about what type of wedding someone else has because of what you did in your wedding previously. It is kind of not your business. I am only from my state, what the neighboring states do is not my concern, even when their teams come to our state to play. And I will only answer to my state administrator or my assignor. Again, if they were that much of a stickler for all these specific mechanics, then folks like me would have never worked the title games in our respective classes or playoff rounds. I guess some of us have to worry about something right?

Peace

Two hands is not simply a mechanic. It's a rule. Rule 2-9-1 is going to be changed to reflect this.

I doubt a significant number of, if any, states are going to override the new rule.

Yeah, like the jersey we are asked to wear is a rule too. And I do nothing but see a lot of games that are not following the rule by not wearing a black and white striped shirt. Good luck enforcing that one across the board.

Peace

Not the same thing. But if it makes you feel better, have at it. My state will be using two hands; one of the camp directors was just talking to me today about training on it this summer.

I wouldn't be surprised if every state except Illinois requires two hands.

How is it not the same thing? There are states that not only did not use those particular shirts, but used them openly and were NF members. Heck even in my state some shootouts or tournaments used other color shirts. The rule is clear and it has been violated on many levels. Same freakin thing. :)

No, already been adopted. But no one is blowing a wad over the change as you seem to be. And the issue again is not if it is adopted, the issue is why it needed to be changed. It did not need to be changed and it is not a better mechanic when officials have a problem doing all the other things to report a foul (clear the players, get to the reporting area, use their voice properly, use the right wording to report the number and making eye contact with the scorer).

Peace

Name: Richard Kimble. Profession: Doctor of Medicine. Destination: Death Row ...
 

Of course, you all realize that this new rule discriminates against Dr. Richard Kimble's antagonist.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.a...=0&w=262&h=170

This guy shouldn't have any problem signaling.
 

Well, you would like to think so, at least. This is the NFHS, after all!


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