Which finger on the hand with one? [emoji6]


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Surfin Bird (The Trashmen, 1963) ...
 

It depends on what information you want to convey to the coaches, and fans.

And also what information the fans want to convey to the players.

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visu...509-Tobias.jpg

Tues night, I did my first game with two-handed reporting.......I have work to do to feel comfortable. Most importantly for me, I took my time and thought about it (twas a Rec league).

Nope. Read it again. Smiley face.

Our state allowed optional 2-hand reporting last year. I'm going to camp toward the end of June and can't wait to see if I can tell who was using it last year and who is new to it this year. One of my partners said he'd buy the first round if more than 5 people at camp have trouble with it. I'm thinking he'll be ponying up.

The issue with camp games (and summer ball, AAU, and lots of other off-season basketball) are all of the illegal numbers. I turn my hand sideways for digits 6 and greater (e.g. "7" = sideways 2). This will be tricky for officials and table personnel new to 2H reporting.


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That's what a guy I work with does too. During summer ball or AAU where I'm not being observed, I just yell it 3 times from the other end of the court and put the ball back in play:D

When In Connecticut, Do As ...
 

Connecticut uses 99% IAABO (not NFHS) mechanics.

I can't wait to see if:

1) Connecticut switches to two hand reporting.

2) Connecticut switches to orally stating numbers rather than numerals (as we currently do), i.e., orally state, "Twenty-three", instead of, "Two. Three".

Unless it's a running clock, in which case I walk slowly over to the table and help the scorer write the foul in the correct box before slowly walking back to administer the throw-in.

My only concern, and I'm not sure if someone already posted because I didn't read all 6 pages, I hope the coaches don't see this as a wasted opportunity like they are entitled to a freebie each game. Like taking a TO down by 12 with 0:30 remaining just because they can. No free shots. I know some coaches who will see it that way and some who would never consider it. I'd rather not stop a running clock for any reason.

Connecticut wants you to say "Two-Three"?

When they tell you to pay your dues, do they say it will be "Five-Five dollars"?

Numerals Or Numbers ...
 

Been that way for over thirty-five years. That's the way rookie officials are taught, and that's the way officials are evaluated.

Also, our annual board dues are One Two Five dollars.

Maybe things will change with the new two hand reporting, if we go in that direction using our IAABO mechanics.

There was a time when it was recommended in many literature that is how you reported. That was the case when I started. Now that being said, I did it for years to slow me down and not say multiple syllables for numbers. Never really had a problem with that method either. But I do understand why those do not like it, but again it was the way it was taught and the table people never were confused. I know the point was to stay away from the "teen..." numbers because they were multiple syllables.

Peace

Wow (assuming the decimal point goes where I suspect it does). What do you get for that big chunk of cash? Wow, again.

Big Business ...
 

$125.00 is our fixed annual dues, no matter how many games you work, add to that a 7% fee based on our earnings.

As long as numbers are being discussed...RIP 007

Is that for the local association, the state association, any national (NFHS) membership?

Our annual dues are about that much, too, but they also include an NASO membership as our entire association belongs.

Show Me The Money ...
 

IAABO local, IAABO state, IAABO international, and CIAC (state interscholastic sports governing body) officials association. Connecticut basketball officials, 100% all IAABO, don't belong to the NFHS, in fact, if a basketball official doesn't work another NFHS sport, it's almost impossible to join the NFHS as a basketball official (Arbiter muddies the water).

This was the problem that I had with IAABO. Too many levels of bureaucracy leading to everyone having their hand in your pocket. Someone has to pay for those national conventions which they hold!

I agree completely, and I think it's yet anothertrickle-down from college. Coaches are the most important personalities in college basketball because their year-to-year presence provides the continuity needed by the big dollar TV contracts. Players turn over in one to three years so coaching personality is the only consistent factor in the college game and is the major way in which the game ismarketed. (sure, there are exceptions, such as the tournament Cinderella teams that emerge every late March)

Yes, coaches in all sports provide direction, but in no other sport do we see coaches hollering instructions virtually every second of every game. Extending the coaching box is more than a policing issue, it shows an unfortunate NFHS buy-in to the marketing of coaches and the continued diminution of what should be its core goal of letting the kids play. We don't allow coaches to stand at second base, or on the blue line, or next to to the umpire during a goal-line stand, why is it OK for them to wander all the way down the court.

The excuse given, that smaller box serves to "limit the level of communication between coach and players" shows this rule change to be a solution in search of a problem.

Having worked multiple states, I am a fan of IAABO, because it's training is better than what I've seen in non-IAABO states and its motto of one interpretation promotes consistency

I have no problem kicking in a few more bucks so the board interpreter can attend a convention; the pre-season rules and interpretation sessions run by folks coming back from IAABO are more thorough, and show better understanding of the the relationship between rules and reffing than those in non-IAABO jurisdictions.

In football they allow coaches to be on the sideline for most of the field. What does standing on a base or not standing on a base have to do with this issue? Coaches in many sports including baseball have privileges that extend beyond the actual playing of the game. In baseball that is the only sport that allows a coach to stop the game just to argue a judgment that is being called by an official. So though a coach is not allowed to stand on second base, he can certainly go to second base if he does not like a call there.

Well I might agree if not every level to some extend had this ability to move that far. Even college is now extending their coaching box this coming year. I got tired of having to worry about where a coach was standing for the most part when they were not doing or saying anything.

Peace

They don't get the whole court. They get 1/3 of that.

Your attempt to minimalize coaches is noted, although I think it's misguided. Kids come and go. The best programs are usually that way because of the influence and continuity the coach provides.

I honestly can't see why or how anyone would be upset with extending the box. We have so much administrative nonsense that the NFHS requires us to deal with, and this is making our job easier. The only thing different for me is that now the coach can come down to the end line and chew my ass when I'm at L and I can't penalize him for being outside the box, but I can now officially warn or perhaps even whack him for his behavior.

Comparing sports is apples-to-oranges, as JRut noted.

Baseball has coaches at 1st and 3rd base. The manager/HC can actually come out to the mound and talk to the pitcher. Football coaches are allowed to go 20 yards on either sided of the 50 yard line.

Basketball coaches are not even allowed to half court, nor are they allowed to even come out on to the court during time-outs. They don't get to go out to the free throw line and settle down a player.

Your comparisons are not making much sense in this context.

Also in football a coach and come out to the middle of the field during the timeout if they choose.

Again I like the change because even if I am the Lead and the coach comes to me, I can say something back to him without likely having to yell. Why is this any different than when the coach comes to me in the Center position?

Peace

I still run into officials who think coaches should be glued to the benches.

Next Step in NFHS Publicizing New Rules
 

Just out today:

Likely Phraseology of the New Rules: http://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-...anges-2017-18/

Comments on the Rules: http://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-...rules-2017-18/

POE's: http://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-...hasis-2017-18/

Two-Hand Foul Reporting:http://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-...oul-reporting/

Like ...
 

Agree, and agree again. I welcome the change. And I started officiating when coaches were seatbelted for 99% of the game.

I'm surprised no one posted this today.
 

Two-Hand Reporting

Peace

NFHS is trying to market their coaches like in college? Seriously?

How many college basketball coaches can you name? I'm pretty darn sure it's a tiny fraction of the 351 head coaches for division 1 teams (assuming each school has a head coach under contract at this time).

I've been officiating for 9 years now in and around Columbus, OH? You know how many coaches I can name? None. To be fair I'm not from Columbus, or even Ohio. I'm from central New York. However, when I was still playing in high school, do you know how many basketball coaches I could name in the league I played in? 1... mine.

Marketing in college is about the school... not any individual. A school may use certain individuals in marketing, but as time goes on it's the individual schools that fans relate to and continue with... not any one person.

Market them? Market them how? What am I missing here? And yes I can name many coaches at the top level in most major conferences. Or I can name a coach and where he used to coach after he was fired or jumped to another level or position. If you follow Men's college basketball, it is rare that I do not know something about the coaches in the Final Four. Been watching Mark Few for years and of course remember Roy Williams from Kansas and now North Carolina. I only mention that because in my state where we have over 800 schools total I do remember or know of many of the more successful coaches by name and know something about their programs or success, the same way I do for college on a different scale.

Well I have been doing this for over 20 and it is rare that I work a game that I have not seen the coach or know the coach. Even in the playoffs I have had coaches often that I have had at some point during the my career like today where I worked some summer games and two of the coaches I have had before during regular season games and summer games.

OK, I am still a little lost on your point. If we are talking about the coaching box, I do not know what that has to do with any marketing?

Peace

I mistakenly responded to amusedofficial's post without quoting him.

I know other officials know coach's names, and there are people much more knowledgeable than me when it comes to coaches in the NCAA, but I do not agree that coaches are used for marketing... outside of a few schools like Syracuse, North Carolina, and Duke. Same as in high school.

BTW, there was one coach who retired recently that was well known around these parts, however I can only remember him by his nickname.

I'm like you when it comes to coaches, I know only a few by name. I'm not from where I live, the military brought me here. I went to a college camp this weekend with 4 guys from my HS board and I didn't know any of the folks they were talking about, players and coaches. And really, I don't care if I ever get to know any of the coaches.

All I am saying is I am confused with what does knowing coaches names have to do with the rules changes? If you know them or do not know them is not relevant to anything we are discussing honestly. I know coaches names but that is because you see guys come and go from one place to another. Heck most coaches are long gone from the time you see them anyway. I do not really understand why anything we really do is about them. The only thing that seems to matter in rules changes are that coaches have more influence on the rules changes than officials do.

Peace

I responded to a message claiming the NFHS wants to market coaches like they allegedly do in college ball. My knowledge of coaches at both levels, seeing as how I've officiated at one level for nine years and watched the other level for around 30, is absolutely relevant.

Now, if you don't like the topic of this thread being hijacked, I'm sorry. You'd be right to be upset, as that's not cool. But I find it funny that you've chosen to go after me and not say a word to the person that changed the subject in the first place.

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I did not make a comment about not liking the thread. Just commenting on your comments. I just did not see why this had anything to do with the rules changes. That is pretty much it. It is not about you personally. It is about the relevance to the bigger picture here.

Peace

I responded to a comment where that information is relevant.

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And I comment to that comment. Now what?

Peace

Hug?

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Musical Chairs ...
 

Same thing here in Connecticut. Back in the 1980's, when I started officiating, teachers here in Connecticut were not very well paid. Many teachers would teach summer school, teach driver's education, paint houses, or coach one, or more, sports, to earn some extra money to support their families. I was teaching back then, and I coached basketball, officiated basketball, worked summer basketball camps, and was a bartender at a golf course. Coaching was a great gig, and coaches would often hang around for dozens of years.

Now, teachers are much better paid than in the past. The supplemental money that comes from coaching isn't as important as it used to be. New coaches appear, coach for a few years, realize that they really don't need the money in exchange for the time commitment, and the grief from parents, athletic directors, principals, etc., and resign. The most common reason cited for leaving the coaching profession is that coaches want to watch their kids grow up, and want to watch their kids play town, middle school, and high school sports.

It's like a coaching revolving door around here. Until I walk into a gymnasium, I'm never 100% sure who the coach will be.

Just added
 

They just added to the two hand foul reporting today.

http://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-...oul-reporting/

Kevin

Now if people would just stop pointing at the bench when reporting the color....(where did that come from anyway?)

That is Lacrosse and probably other sports. The problem is the table people havent replaced their hearing aids in 20 years and miss the color so that pointing helps the right team get the foul...

Literally physically impossible for me (and most coaches I know). No way can I sit the entire time. Too many frustrating things that go on out there with my players...to expect a coach to just sit and not get up to communicate with players is ridiculous.

Yep.

I want to get rid of the seatbelt rule after a technical foul.

Agreed. Never made sense to me to tell an already agitated Coach to sit down and stay there.

+1

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Why Pile On ???
 

Agree, and agree again. Two fee throw for the opponents, the possibility of losing the ball to the opponent, and the possibility of an ejection if another technical foul is charged, are punishment enough.

I don't believe college coaches get the seatbelt. Right?

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Right.

This Horse Won't Die Anytime Soon, I Guess
 

Seems as though the NFHS came out with somewhat of a revision to its "Two-Handed Reporting" protocol yesterday. The second to last stipification seems a little odd, but nothing that can't be sorted out in real life.

www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/two-hand-foul-reporting/

Two-hand Foul Reporting
By NFHS on June 07, 2017

TWO-HAND FOUL REPORTING
(Rule 2-9-1 Signals)

The Official will move to the designated reporting area on the floor.

Make sure that you have the attention of the scorer prior to giving the numbers.

Indicate the color of the jersey for the player who fouled.

The Official shall report fouls to the scorer by using two hands to display the jersey number of the person who committed the foul.

The official’s right hand will indicate the first digit of the number or the tens and the left hand will indicate the second digit of the number or the ones.

The official shall extend the arms shoulder high towards the table to display the numbers.

The digits of the number should be displayed at the same time.

When reporting, the official shall verbalize the number as twenty-four not two-four.

The scorer will view the number in a left-to-right sequence.

Indicate the type of foul using the proper signal.

If one, two or three free throws are to be attempted, indicate the number of free throws by using one hand.

If the team is in the bonus for the seventh, eight of ninth foul, indicate the bonus situation raising both hands and display a raised index finger on each hand.

If the foul is a team control foul, after the official signals the specific type of foul, the official will turn and signal such with an extended arm, closed fist parallel to the table and side line, indicating no free throws will be attempted.

After reporting and if no free throws are to be attempted, the official will turn from the table and indicate the throw-in spot to resume play.

What was the revision? Sounds like this is the same things we were asked to do without two hands being used?

Peace

The last three paragraphs seem to have been added with the date stamp of June 7 to what was released to us last week.

Not intending at all to be critical of this or overly-analytical...just reporting what the news is.

I did not see a difference, but I was not looking for one either. It looks very much like the same document they released when they made the change. I will have to go back to notice they added some things.

Peace

Forgive me if this has been posted already . . .
An NFHS PowerPoint on the two rule changes relevant to the Fashion Police changes came out on their Arbiter Central Hub on June 4. I just know there are lots of you interested in this. Not that I am...just reporting the news.

https://nfhs-basketball.arbitersport...rm-Information

can you summarize, for those of us who do not have access to the NFHS group on Arbiter.

This formerly last bullet point was slightly revised to read like this:

> If one, two or three free throws are to be attempted, indicate the number of free throws by using one hand.


These three bullet points seem to have been added to the list:

> If the team is in the bonus for the seventh, eight of ninth foul, indicate the bonus situation raising both hands and display a raised index finger on each hand.

> If the foul is a team control foul, after the official signals the specific type of foul, the official will turn and signal such with an extended arm, closed fist parallel to the table and side line, indicating no free throws will be attempted.

> After reporting and if no free throws are to be attempted, the official will turn from the table and indicate the throw-in spot to resume play.

Doesn't sound like much of a change, but a clarification with things we did already. Again, this is all much to do about nothing. Still trying to see the big draw to this mechanic.

Peace

When do the NFHS and NCAA '17-'18 rulebooks come out?


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According to the NF website, the Rulebooks come out in July the Casebook comes out in August. It looks like all the other books come out in August as well like Rules by Topic or Simplified and Illustrated Book.

Peace

Two Hands
 

I've been trying to use the two-hand reporting system during summer ball. Retraining myself and undoing ingrained habits is neither simple nor easy for this old dog.

Old Dog, New Tricks ???
 

I'm not looking forward to this myself.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.d...=0&w=300&h=300

I'm pretty sue that was the mechanic back in the late '80's. I remember doing it and I wouldn't have unless that was in the officials manual as that was how I learned. It was the first thing when reporting; point to the offenders bench, "white, twenty-three, block"

1987. Can't remember ever doing it.

Anybody notice that in the points of emphasis it states

it is contact that:
•
• Contact on an opponent who is clearly not in the play

I thought i worked for the Department of redundancy Department... or no wonder we're confused on rules when they cant get a simple statement correct

Unlisted change to NFHS R9-S1-A3c.
 

For those have been wondering why I have been mostly quiet for almost a year, there have been some changes in my life that have just made me take a more of the attitude of a quiet bystander.

None-the-less, while reading the NFHS and NCAA Men's and Women's Rules Books last night I came across a change in NFHS R9-S1-A3c which was not made in NCAA Men's and Women's R9-S1-A1f.

Last year:

NFHS R9-S1-A3c: "After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free thrower no opponent shall disconcert the free thrower."

NCAA Men's R9-S1-A1f: "After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free-thrower, it is a violation when an opponent disconcerts (e.g. taunt, bait, gesture or delay) the free-thrower."

NCAA Women's R9-S1-A1f: "After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free-thrower, it is a violation when an opponent disconcerts (e.g. taunts, baits, gestures or delays) the free-thrower."


This year:

NFHS R9-S1-A3c: "After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free thrower no opponent shall distract the free thrower."

NCAA Men's R9-S1-A1f: "After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free-thrower, it is a violation when an opponent disconcerts (e.g. taunt, bait, gesture or delay) the free-thrower."

NCAA Women's R9-S1-A1f: "After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free-thrower, it is a violation when an opponent disconcerts (e.g. taunts, baits, gestures or delays) the free-thrower."


Can anyone spot the change? Let the fun begin!

MTD, Sr.

Being a high school official I didn't look hard at any but the NFHS part, where I found they changed the word "disconcert" to "distract".

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We have a winner!

The question now is: Why was the change made?

MTD, Sr.

Too many people had to ask what "disconcert" means?

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You beat me to it, I was going to say the same thing, but add that People=Coaches

Reminds me of when Delta Air Lines replaced "turbulence" in their safety speech with "unexpected rough air."

Distract is easier to understand/define than disconcert